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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178301: Mar 17th 2017 at 2:34:10 AM

[up] Taiwan is more or less gonna get the short-end of the stick regardless of what happens. They were counting on TPP (a contentious issue in Taiwan as well) but that's gone. And Tsai Ing's ill-advised phone call didn't exactly help matters.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#178302: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:07:13 AM

Random question: just how big a balls-up does it take to get you guys to go back and debug your system of government? In just under five years, you've had a government shutdown, another dodgy election result, filibuster threats and now one senator deciding that international agreements are his bitch...

This... isn't normal. :|

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178303: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:14:26 AM

[up] Some of that requires amending our Constitution...and that's a rather difficult thing to do, by design.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#178304: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:17:17 AM

[up]Look, I get making it tricky to use Admin Mode on government. But, making it so hard that it's practically impossible to ever break the toolbox out at all is a bug that needs fixing. -_-

Isn't there a point where you just junk the obviously bad and reach for the crowbar, anyway?

edited 17th Mar '17 3:20:10 AM by Euodiachloris

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178305: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:21:40 AM

They turned on Warren, they turned on Sanders himself after he endorsed Clinton, they turned or Sarah Silverman, they're turning on Ellison right now, I wouldn't describe any of those people as "Corporate Democrats" or "centerists".

Only a small but vocal minority.

And the guys that turned on Sanders are Trump supporters right now.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178306: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:25:03 AM

[up][up] Sure but they need to get the toolbox out to fix it, which as you just pointed out is near impossible to do.

[up] The small minority are the group we're talking about, that's who people mean when they say the "far left" and such. As for the folks who turned on Sanders going to Trump, not the most vocal ones, a lot of them went to Stein or went home and are continuing to pitch a fit online. TYT turned on Sanders partially when he endorsed Clinton, they haven't gone to Trump yet.

edited 17th Mar '17 3:27:27 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#178307: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:31:29 AM

Tillerson: Military action against North Korea 'an option'

Remember when Hillary was supposed to be the warhawk and electing Trump meant America would never go to war with anyone ever again ever?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#178308: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:36:31 AM

Well, I hope none of you live on the West Coast or in the Pacific.

If you do, good luck with the fallout. If you get attacked by giant radioactive scorpions, run.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178309: Mar 17th 2017 at 3:48:55 AM

[up][up] A "no-fly" zone in Syria sounds positively quaint these days.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#178310: Mar 17th 2017 at 4:00:48 AM

[up][up]

I don't think the US need to worry about anything reaching their continent. What they should worry about is the complete chaos in East Asia if North Korea retaliates with...everything.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#178311: Mar 17th 2017 at 5:02:46 AM

@Euo: Problem is that there's a powerful Vocal Minority of Mac users who don't want to upgrade if the new OS might be incompatible with the emulator they're using, not to mention opposition from guys like Rand Paul who think we should go back to pen and ink. So we have to keep providing service for the old OS, which makes it impossible to roll out a new version, and geez I'm mixing my metaphors.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#178312: Mar 17th 2017 at 5:51:35 AM

MadSkillz, just one thing: it's Democratic Party, not "Democrat Party." Calling it the "Democrat Party" is a shibboleth for GOP loyalties, which I know you don't have.

Anyway, every political party will have some corporate ties because corporations of all stripes and sizes are reliable sources of political funding, and the Democrats have to play the game if they hope to win it. If you want to incentivize removing corporate influence entirely, you have to develop a way to fundraise without having to appeal to the average hyperparanoid mom n' pop.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#178313: Mar 17th 2017 at 5:59:09 AM

The New Jersey Legislature has passed a bill which would prevent Trump from being on the ballot in the 2020 election if he doesn't release his taxes.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178314: Mar 17th 2017 at 6:28:06 AM

[up] That'll probably get struck as unconstitutional.

Regarding corporate influence, the meme that all corporations are greedy, amoral machines of oppression is just as false as the meme that they are the "producers" in our society who must be fellated to guarantee prosperity.

It is impossible and indeed counter-productive to eliminate all political influence from corporations. It is entirely reasonable for, say, the automobile industry to give feedback and information to politicians who are looking to enact legislation that governs said industry. After all, they're the experts, not you and I. As long as money exists, it is a form of power, and politics is the art of power.

What you can do is make the process of influencing, as opposed to informing, as egalitarian as possible. For example, the idea that "corporations are people" and are due a voice independently of the individuals operating them is very dangerous and needs to be rescinded. I also strongly believe that individual political donations should be banned and all elections conducted with public funds distributed evenly among all candidates who meet a standard threshold, with mandatory advertising time on networks.

edited 17th Mar '17 6:34:21 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#178315: Mar 17th 2017 at 6:40:36 AM

The origin of the "corporations as persons" thing is not something I have a problem with. Basically, due to the way court works, you can't sue something abstract (which a corporation kind of is), so corporations were defined as legal persons so that they could be targets in lawsuits.

However, extending it to the level it's gotten to in recent years really is a problem.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178316: Mar 17th 2017 at 6:44:12 AM

I didn't want to go crazy with the details, but you're right that a corporate entity is a fictional legal person for the reason that its basic design shields its owners/officers from direct liability, in a way that a proprietorship doesn't. If you have a beef with Acme Corp., you can't sue Joe Acme, its CEO, directly.

We could have whole reams of debate over the benefits and drawbacks of this system, but it's not what I'm concerned with. I am specifically concerned with the idea that Acme Corp. is allowed by law to have a political voice, the same as you or I, when it is not actually a person and its "voice" is a function of the views of its owners and board members.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#178317: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:17:42 AM

Seven years. Seven. Years. Seven years. And this was the healthcare bill they came out with? One that nearly everyone hates from left to center to almost every element of the fucking right? What the hell were they doing when they were whining constantly about it and undermining it whenever they can? What would they have done if they had repealed it when they wanted to? What the hell was their PLAN?

That's it, I'm calling the Republican Party the "3D Realms Party". Seems fitting, doesn't it?

Edited by fredhot16 on May 23rd 2021 at 11:04:26 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178318: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:33:31 AM

[up] Seven years...

Hell, I'd be surprised if they even put in seven weeks, or seven days, or even seven HOURS into writing up the damn thing. It's basically the ACA stripped of everything that made it good with a lot that makes it even worse added.

Disgusted, but not surprised
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#178319: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:45:31 AM

I don't think Republicans ever really expected to get a chance to actually replace it. All they really want is to destroy Obama's legacy so that they can be the "winners." That's all it's ever been about. They don't care about actually helping anyone. Everything is a contest and they're trying to come out on top.

edited 17th Mar '17 7:47:46 AM by StarOutlaw

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178320: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:47:43 AM

[up] If I were trying to do that, I'd have actually spent those years at least trying to write up a superior health care bill. Rather than waste them whining and being a contrarian ass.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#178321: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:50:38 AM

They can't. As has been noted by many pundits, Republican politics is based around talking the talk — you must be a card-carrying ideologue or you're excommunicated. At no point is actual policy development a part of this process; indeed, anyone who's tried to seriously develop proposals to implement their ideology has discovered that it's impossible and been kicked out for daring to call the Emperor naked.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178322: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:53:46 AM

[up] This handily explains why most of the so-called reasonable GOP officials are strictly local.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178323: Mar 17th 2017 at 7:58:48 AM

I don't know if someone has posted this before but will share it anyway:

US will 'not repeat' claims GCHQ wiretapped Donald Trump

The US has agreed not to repeat claims the UK's communications intelligence agency wiretapped Donald Trump during the presidential election campaign.

GCHQ rejected allegations made by White House press secretary Sean Spicer, that it spied on Mr Trump, as "nonsense".

No 10 has now been assured by Mr Spicer he would not repeat the accusation.

A spokesman for Prime Minister Theresa May said it had been made clear to US authorities the claims were "ridiculous and should have been ignored".

GCHQ also rejected the allegations as "utterly ridiculous". The unusual move by the agency to comment on the news came after Mr Spicer cited claims first made on US TV channel Fox News earlier this week.

Mr Trump said that Trump Tower in New York was under surveillance, but has provided no evidence for the claim.

The allegations of GCHQ involvement were initially made by former judge Andrew Napolitano.

Mr Spicer quoted Mr Napolitano as saying: "Three intelligence sources have informed Fox News that President Obama went outside the chain of command."

He said Mr Obama "didn't use the NSA, he didn't use the CIA, he didn't use the FBI and he didn't use the Department of Justice, he used GCHQ.

"What the heck is GCHQ? That's the initials for the British spying agency. They have 24/7 access to the NSA database."

A GCHQ spokesman said: "Recent allegations made by media commentator Judge Andrew Napolitano about GCHQ being asked to conduct 'wiretapping' against the then president-elect are nonsense.

"They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored."

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178325: Mar 17th 2017 at 8:02:38 AM

Tillerson has said some belligerent shit about China in the past too. He compared what China has done to the South Sea to Russia taking over Crimea. Ah, irony.

And holy shit Tillerson. North Korea already employs judicious amounts of anti-USA propaganda to maintain power over their people. Don't fucking give them something that validates it.

edited 17th Mar '17 8:05:17 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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