Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
So this was bought up in European politics thread, but Rand Paul has blocked Montenegro joining NATO (the senate has to ratify the relevant treaty unanimously) and John Mc Cain has said that "The senator from Kentucky is now working for Vladimir Putin. [1]
Oh and in other news the wiretapping thing isn't over, the claim is now that Obama got the British to do the wiretapping, GCHQ responded to the claims, saying that, "They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored."
edited 16th Mar '17 9:35:00 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Not to mention he's in his 70's and has poor health (Contrary to what his supporters will tell you. It's obvious just by looking at him). There's a decent chance that he can die during his term, especially since many other celebrities his age have been dying recently.
And Croatia next door is already part of NATO. Apparently most Montenegrins were against joining NATO anyways, though.
edited 16th Mar '17 9:48:01 PM by Bat178
The polls I've seen showed a narrow majority for joining but an equal percentage not interested (something like a third for each joining, not joining and not knowing, with the joining third being slightly larger than the not joining third) It's worth noting that pro-NATO parties did win the recent elections, though obviously that could have been due to non-NATO reasons.
I'm just curious as to Paul's reasoning, is it personal? Another Russian connection? Did the White House put him up to it?
edited 16th Mar '17 9:45:58 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
I don't think that Berniecrats count as "far left" by any reasonable definition, unless you consider the very right-wing overall U.S. political spectrum to be representative of all left-right politics. Heck, most of the "radical" policies they endorse are things that used to be the Democratic Party's platform.
Anyway, I'm not entirely sure why anyone is surprised that Keith Ellison would support Hillary Clinton (and not just solely out of lesser-evilism). Policy-wise he's still relatively centrist, like most of the Democratic Party. The most substantial difference between him and Tom Perez in his actual politics is his support for Palestinian rights, and while that's admittedly something of a huge problem with Perez, in terms of what the DNC would actually accomplish it would make little difference who is the chairman.
edited 16th Mar '17 10:39:31 PM by Zennistrad
The Democrats are more centrist because the stakes are too high to split into twenty-eight ideologically pure factions in the face of the Republican war machine. We don't have the luxury of the Right being split across many factions. Honestly, if one's response to Trump's tyranny is to throw shade on Democrats, they deserve to be laughed out of the room.
edited 16th Mar '17 10:58:35 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."Ugh. Are they neo-communists? They're not far left then. They're just stubborn.
It's annoying because it's a term that Fox News popularized to call anyone left of Republicans so seeing our own party throw the exact same slur to demonize the actual left wing of the party is annoying.
I mean if you want to talk shit about the uncompromising nature of some progressives then that's fair but calling them far-left isn't even close to factual. It's just right-wing mud-slinging.
![]()
This is a thread about American politics with the commonly accepted fact that American politics are on kind of a different scale than the rest of the world. You don't have to worry about being associated with a group of people in a country you're not in, and the request was in no way about you specifically or anyone trying to associate you with anyone. If your complaint was about Tactical's frequently militant tone towards "far leftists" you should have perhaps made that more clear.
Zenn, I mean that literally we repeat the fact that American politics are rightward compared to the rest of the world a lot in this thread. It had nothing to do with Fox News basically being Fox news or the uncompromising section of the left that thinks not uniting against Trump is a good idea. I don't know why you thought it was. It was simply a request that we not repeat the whole "America/Sanders/Whatever is not really leftist compared to some other country". (And frankly that's a bit of a purity test itself.)
And quite frankly you find those people everywhere because they're subjecting everyone to purity tests.
edited 16th Mar '17 11:06:50 PM by AceofSpades
The Democrats are centrist because left wing economic policies aren't too popular with donors.
Centrist Democrats are vital in heavily republican states and more moderate areas but on the national stage the actual left wing of the party should be taking charge. But that's just my opinion.
I mean the future of their base wants the Dems to move left but they're in danger of losing them if they don't listen at some point. At least they're taking steps though.
edited 16th Mar '17 11:20:50 PM by MadSkillz
And I'm bringing Fox News up because they want people to think that there's a far left group in America. There isn't.
Call them what they are. Ideologues.
The fact is that America is a very right-wing nation and I disagree with trying to normalize that just because the rest of the developed world isn't as backwardly right as we are.
edited 16th Mar '17 11:20:05 PM by MadSkillz
The backlash over Ellison going along with so-called "Clinton politics" lends credence to Jovian's
and Ambar's
earlier posts in which they claimed that the "progressive" wing would have turned on Ellison if he had won the DNC chair and proceeded to assist the campaign efforts of establishment Democratic members who have the best (or only real) chances of winning elections. Which is more or less the job description of the DNC chair (get Democrats elected).
edited 16th Mar '17 11:37:26 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnd currently big money donors are a requirement to be competitive in US elections, that needs to change, but we have to win under the current system before we can change it.
No credit to me? I'm hurt.
Apologies.
Those two specific posts happened to stick out in my memory.
I mean you've posted before about this, but I don't recall a specific post where you claimed that the "progressives" would turn on Ellison the moment he started doing actual DNC work.
edited 16th Mar '17 11:41:45 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised

Well Daddy died and Trump got access to all the money so he could save his own ass. Until now, where even if he survives his presidency, he's probably going to be quite bankrupt after all this. Maybe, some day, all those businesses pulling out of deals with him will finally have an effect.