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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#178251: Mar 16th 2017 at 8:39:18 PM

Well Daddy died and Trump got access to all the money so he could save his own ass. Until now, where even if he survives his presidency, he's probably going to be quite bankrupt after all this. Maybe, some day, all those businesses pulling out of deals with him will finally have an effect.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#178252: Mar 16th 2017 at 8:42:58 PM

[up]I just love how we have to use the word 'if.' 'If' he survives his Presidency. Because even if America doesn't survive it, it's practically guaranteed he probably ain't gonna either for one reason or another. Schadenfreude at its' finest.

edited 16th Mar '17 8:43:21 PM by kkhohoho

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#178253: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:15:56 PM

Well he's kind of already cracking under the pressure of realizing that his word is not automatically law and that yes, even if he gets his way in the end, he can in fact be challenged for any number of reasons.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178254: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:17:21 PM

Trump seems to not realize that the President is not a King.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178255: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:29:04 PM

So this was bought up in European politics thread, but Rand Paul has blocked Montenegro joining NATO (the senate has to ratify the relevant treaty unanimously) and John Mc Cain has said that "The senator from Kentucky is now working for Vladimir Putin. [1]

Oh and in other news the wiretapping thing isn't over, the claim is now that Obama got the British to do the wiretapping, GCHQ responded to the claims, saying that, "They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored."

edited 16th Mar '17 9:35:00 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178256: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:33:37 PM

[up] So Trump is dragging the UK into this mess? As if they don't have their own shit to deal with now.

Also, WTF Rand Paul? I know he's a dick, but seriously — why the hell would he care if Montenegro joins NATO?

edited 16th Mar '17 9:34:34 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#178257: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:41:18 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Not to mention he's in his 70's and has poor health (Contrary to what his supporters will tell you. It's obvious just by looking at him). There's a decent chance that he can die during his term, especially since many other celebrities his age have been dying recently.

[up] And Croatia next door is already part of NATO. Apparently most Montenegrins were against joining NATO anyways, though.

edited 16th Mar '17 9:48:01 PM by Bat178

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178258: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:44:56 PM

The polls I've seen showed a narrow majority for joining but an equal percentage not interested (something like a third for each joining, not joining and not knowing, with the joining third being slightly larger than the not joining third) It's worth noting that pro-NATO parties did win the recent elections, though obviously that could have been due to non-NATO reasons.

I'm just curious as to Paul's reasoning, is it personal? Another Russian connection? Did the White House put him up to it?

edited 16th Mar '17 9:45:58 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#178259: Mar 16th 2017 at 9:52:20 PM

[up] Maybe Serbia might have had something to do with it? They've been up to some trouble recently.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178261: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:05:33 PM

[up] The first listed response was gold:

"I often have issues with the Dems, but I'll take the party that isn't actively trying to starve grandparents and poor kids atm"

Disgusted, but not surprised
Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#178262: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:33:58 PM

[up][up] I don't think that Berniecrats count as "far left" by any reasonable definition, unless you consider the very right-wing overall U.S. political spectrum to be representative of all left-right politics. Heck, most of the "radical" policies they endorse are things that used to be the Democratic Party's platform.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure why anyone is surprised that Keith Ellison would support Hillary Clinton (and not just solely out of lesser-evilism). Policy-wise he's still relatively centrist, like most of the Democratic Party. The most substantial difference between him and Tom Perez in his actual politics is his support for Palestinian rights, and while that's admittedly something of a huge problem with Perez, in terms of what the DNC would actually accomplish it would make little difference who is the chairman.

edited 16th Mar '17 10:39:31 PM by Zennistrad

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#178263: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:35:18 PM

[up]People keep repeating that little factoid about Sanders and his supporters. We get it, we do, American politics has a slightly different scale than the rest of the world. We don't have to keep reminding ourselves of that fact.

Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#178264: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:38:49 PM

[up]

Well as an actual "far leftist" by most definitions I'm not particularly fond of being associated with people who don't share my politics, especially if they're called "morons," so maybe I have a reason not to appreciate it.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#178265: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:56:02 PM

The Democrats are more centrist because the stakes are too high to split into twenty-eight ideologically pure factions in the face of the Republican war machine. We don't have the luxury of the Right being split across many factions. Honestly, if one's response to Trump's tyranny is to throw shade on Democrats, they deserve to be laughed out of the room.

edited 16th Mar '17 10:58:35 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178266: Mar 16th 2017 at 10:59:41 PM

Goodness Gracious. Keith Ellison smacking down far-left morons with backhanded politeness is cathartic.

Ugh. Are they neo-communists? They're not far left then. They're just stubborn.

People keep repeating that little factoid about Sanders and his supporters. We get it, we do, American politics has a slightly different scale than the rest of the world. We don't have to keep reminding ourselves of that fact.

It's annoying because it's a term that Fox News popularized to call anyone left of Republicans so seeing our own party throw the exact same slur to demonize the actual left wing of the party is annoying.

I mean if you want to talk shit about the uncompromising nature of some progressives then that's fair but calling them far-left isn't even close to factual. It's just right-wing mud-slinging.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#178267: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:05:51 PM

[up][up]This is a thread about American politics with the commonly accepted fact that American politics are on kind of a different scale than the rest of the world. You don't have to worry about being associated with a group of people in a country you're not in, and the request was in no way about you specifically or anyone trying to associate you with anyone. If your complaint was about Tactical's frequently militant tone towards "far leftists" you should have perhaps made that more clear.

[up]Zenn, I mean that literally we repeat the fact that American politics are rightward compared to the rest of the world a lot in this thread. It had nothing to do with Fox News basically being Fox news or the uncompromising section of the left that thinks not uniting against Trump is a good idea. I don't know why you thought it was. It was simply a request that we not repeat the whole "America/Sanders/Whatever is not really leftist compared to some other country". (And frankly that's a bit of a purity test itself.)

And quite frankly you find those people everywhere because they're subjecting everyone to purity tests.

edited 16th Mar '17 11:06:50 PM by AceofSpades

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178269: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:11:28 PM

The Democrats are more centrist because the stakes are too high to split into twenty-eight ideologically pure factions in the face of the Republican war machine.

The Democrats are centrist because left wing economic policies aren't too popular with donors.

Centrist Democrats are vital in heavily republican states and more moderate areas but on the national stage the actual left wing of the party should be taking charge. But that's just my opinion.

I mean the future of their base wants the Dems to move left but they're in danger of losing them if they don't listen at some point. At least they're taking steps though.

edited 16th Mar '17 11:20:50 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178270: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:19:02 PM

I mean that literally we repeat the fact that American politics are rightward compared to the rest of the world a lot in this thread. It had nothing to do with Fox News basically being Fox news or the uncompromising section of the left that thinks not uniting against Trump is a good idea.

And I'm bringing Fox News up because they want people to think that there's a far left group in America. There isn't.

Call them what they are. Ideologues.

I don't know why you thought it was. It was simply a request that we not repeat the whole "America/Sanders/Whatever is not really leftist compared to some other country". (And frankly that's a bit of a purity test itself.)

The fact is that America is a very right-wing nation and I disagree with trying to normalize that just because the rest of the developed world isn't as backwardly right as we are.

edited 16th Mar '17 11:20:05 PM by MadSkillz

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#178271: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:25:43 PM

When discussing purely domestic politics there's no point in saying the Democrats are centrist.

Yes we're aware our overton window is disgustingly far to the right. No it's not relevant when discussing things from only an American perspective.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178272: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:32:09 PM

The backlash over Ellison going along with so-called "Clinton politics" lends credence to Jovian's and Ambar's earlier posts in which they claimed that the "progressive" wing would have turned on Ellison if he had won the DNC chair and proceeded to assist the campaign efforts of establishment Democratic members who have the best (or only real) chances of winning elections. Which is more or less the job description of the DNC chair (get Democrats elected).

edited 16th Mar '17 11:37:26 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#178273: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:37:41 PM

The Democrats are centrist because left wing economic policies aren't too popular with donors.

And currently big money donors are a requirement to be competitive in US elections, that needs to change, but we have to win under the current system before we can change it.

[up] No credit to me? I'm hurt. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#178274: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:39:22 PM

[up] Apologies. tongue Those two specific posts happened to stick out in my memory.

I mean you've posted before about this, but I don't recall a specific post where you claimed that the "progressives" would turn on Ellison the moment he started doing actual DNC work.

edited 16th Mar '17 11:41:45 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#178275: Mar 16th 2017 at 11:56:25 PM

Yes we're aware our overton window is disgustingly far to the right. No it's not relevant when discussing things from only an American perspective.

We're not all Americans but even then call a spade a spade.


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