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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I second that motion; let the Democrats actually come up with their own replacement (either UHC or a fix to Obamacare), and let the people know about it, and let the CBO say "Yeah, this will cover more people, not less", just to make the Republican'ts look stupid.
Wilders is in the Netherlands, but I will still cheer to that!
edited 15th Mar '17 6:03:53 PM by DingoWalley1
So, again about watching TV, my mom tells me Trump straight up said something about the travel ban being, in fact, motivated by Islamaphobia. I wasn't paying attention to it; can anyone here verify what was said in his speech earlier?
Also, Geert Wilder appears to have lost his election in Sweden, so yay for the world tailspin into alt rightism being halted in at least one country for now.
edited 15th Mar '17 6:03:04 PM by AceofSpades
Having been to countries where single-payer is a thing, a thing that a lot of people in said countries seem to appreciate, I am still dumbfounded by many of my fellow Americans' kneejerk hostility towards the idea.
How many of them have even actually weighed the possible pros and cons of single-payer, and compared it to what we already have?
But taxes, right.
edited 15th Mar '17 7:06:38 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedThis is a couple of days old, but former Representative Eligio "Kika" de la Garza (D-TX) has passed away at 89.
She may be referring to a quote by Rudy Giuliani where he said that essentially came up to him and asked Rudy how to get the ban through legally.
Here's a statement from the judge who ruled against the ban about the matter:
To rebut that claim, Watson cited Trump campaign press releases touting a Muslim ban, along with television appearances by Trump’s adviser Rudy Giuliani and White House policy adviser and campaign speechwriter Stephen Miller.
“The Government appropriately cautions that, in determining purpose, courts should not look into the ‘veiled psyche’ and ‘secret motives’ of government decision makers and may not undertake a ‘judicial psychoanalysis of a drafter’s heart of hearts,’” Watson wrote in his order. “The Government need not fear. The remarkable facts at issue here require no such impermissible inquiry. For instance, there is nothing ‘veiled’ about this press release: ‘Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.’”
He continued:
Nor is there anything “secret” about the Executive’s motive specific to the issuance of the Executive Order: Rudolph Giuliani explained on television how the Executive Order came to be. He said: “When [Mr. Trump] first announced it, he said, ‘Muslim ban.’ He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally.’”
On February 21, 2017, commenting on the then-upcoming revision to the Executive Order, the President’s Senior Adviser, Stephen Miller, stated, “Fundamentally, [despite “technical” revisions meant to address the Ninth Circuit’s concerns in Washington,] you’re still going to have the same basic policy outcome [as the first].”
These plainly-worded statements, made in the months leading up to and contemporaneous with the signing of the Executive Order, and, in many cases, made by the Executive himself, betray the Executive Order’s stated secular purpose. Any reasonable, objective observer would conclude, as does the Court for purposes of the instant Motion for TRO, that the stated secular purpose of the Executive Order is, at the very least, “secondary to a religious objective” of temporarily suspending the entry of Muslims.
Fox News Poll has Trump at 43% Approval and 48% Disapproval.
Like I said, even Conservatives are getting tired of him.
apparently Clinton's CIA pick
says that he doesn't see any evidence that Trump and Russia cooperated.
(If the CIA was irrelevant to the topic of this thread, I apologize)
edited 15th Mar '17 8:12:35 PM by MorningStar1337
Another Fox News Poll:
Only 34% of American Voters approve of Ryancare, 54% Hate it, 50% Like Obamacare, 77% Like their Own Insurance, 55% Disapprove of how Trump is handling healthcare, and 56% think it's the Federal Government's job to make sure every American has Health Care. They also have Planned Parenthood's likability at 57% and Bernie Sander's likability at 61% (and he's the most liked individual Politician the Poll had). And, keep in mind, this is a FOX NEWS POLL.
That should tell you a lot about the direction of the nation.
Apparently Trump is also proving to be a wedge in the Southern Baptist Convetion
The proximate cause for the backlash is the election: Moore was hypercritical of Donald Trump, while roughly 81 percent of white evangelicals—which includes a lot of Southern Baptists—ended up voting for the president. Page told the Post, “If the meeting doesn’t goes well, I’m fully prepared to ask [Moore] for a change in his status.”
While the controversy might seem like routine bureaucratic in-fighting in the country’s largest Protestant denomination, it is symbolic of deeper tensions. “The SBC is in the middle of a huge identity crisis,” said Dave Miller, the senior pastor of Southern Hills Baptist Church in Sioux City, Iowa, who edits the blog SBC Voices. “We don’t know who we are.”
...
The fight over Moore is not just about him, though. The Southern Baptist Convention is changing, and Moore represents the denomination’s shift in orientation. Moore has frequently spoken out against the old-guard religious right, which was led in the 1990s and ’00s in part by his predecessor at the ERLC, Richard Land. Moore has called on the denomination to divorce itself from Republican politics, especially as younger evangelicals show themselves to be more politically diverse, and has moved his organization in that direction. He is part of a new generation of pastors, who tend to be more Calvinist in orientation, who have taken over leadership roles.
“When I was young, there was a culture that the SBC had,” said Miller. “You could go into any SBC church, and there just was a way we did things. The preachers dressed alike, and we sang from the same hymnbook, and there was a culture that bound us together. That’s been blown completely to pieces.”
The denomination is also looking ahead to a future membership that will be less white and more black and brown: Some of the most vibrant, growing communities in the church include Hispanic evangelicals, for example. During his nearly four years in his position with the ERLC, Moore has focused on racial reconciliation as a key part of his job.
This may be why some in the SBC are pushing back, said Thabiti Anyabwile, a black pastor who leads the Anacostia River Church in Washington, D.C. “Things are motivated by either a desire to quiet conversations around race in the Convention, or are motivated in some places by a kind of racial animus in opposition to the positions Dr. Moore has taken.” A number of prominent African American pastors have warned that Moore’s dismissal would send a bad signal to their churches, which make up a minority of the SBC. “The vast majority of black Southern Baptist Convention church leaders and pastors … are not Trump-leaning, blindly loyal Republican voters,” wrote Dwight Mc Kissic, the pastor at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Texas, in a post for SBC Voices. “Therein lies the potential for the outcome of this investigation to be tremendously and racially polarizing.
But Moore’s detractors say that his comments before and during the election were equally polarizing. “I don’t think Dr. Moore’s comments about Donald Trump are what have [him] in hot water,” said Lewis Richerson, the pastor at Woodlawn Baptist Church in Baton Rouge. “He has singlehandedly caused more division in Southern Baptist life than what we’ve seen in the last 30 years over a tertiary issue: politics.”
Richerson said he believes Moore was condescending toward Southern Baptists who disagreed with him about Trump—something Moore apologized for after the election. But it was more than that: On issues from the Convention’s stance toward the Confederate flag to its recent decision to file a religious-liberty brief in favor of a mosque, he thinks Moore has been dismissive of those who think differently from him. And he sees Moore’s rhetoric on race as inflammatory. “I personally believe Barack Obama is solely responsible for increased tensions in race relations in America,” Richerson said. “In the same vein, Russ Moore is responsible for the current flare-up of negativity in race relations in Southern Baptist life.”
@The Wanderer: I know she isn't referring to Guiliani because it was a specific response to a speech Trump gave TODAY when he was apparently rambling instead of uptalking the healthcare bill like he was supposed to. So I'm going to guess that you and no one else really watched that today.
Afraid not. Sorry I couldn't be of any help.
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |It being a Fox News poll doesn't mean quite as much as you're implying, given that it appears to be a poll conducted by Fox News, not a poll of Fox News views. As a pollster, Fox is perfectly reputable.
But it kind of bothers me that Trump's approval ratings appear to have taken this big a hit over a health care bill that he probably didn't have much of anything to do with. Like, this particular screw-up should be on the GOP's head, not Trump's.
I think they were referring more to the general audience that's implied to be watching Fox news than about Fox news itself. Although I have no idea whether they did this poll just among its viewers or if it was a more general thing.
Also, this is the problem with the presidency: Fairly or not, the guy with the crown gets both the praise and the scorn for a party/country's successes and failures. It was an issue before Trump, and it will be an issue long after him.
Also also, he is the guy who campaigned that he would cut everyone the best deal and get everyone covered by healthcare, so he does in fact bear a small bit of the blame here. Especially since he's on a campaign stumping for this plan.
edited 15th Mar '17 8:51:13 PM by AceofSpades
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He's the GOP President, he promised to come up with a better healthcare system, and he initially endorsed the AHCA. The GOP does need to own this of course, but Trump does too.
x5
Prick.
edited 15th Mar '17 10:47:36 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised@The Wanderer: Trump was at a rally in Nashville, and apparently attacked the courts over halting of the second ban. I cannot find a link ATM, and I do not have the stomach to listen anyway-try your Google-Fu.
edited 15th Mar '17 9:04:54 PM by ViperMagnum357
I actually heard that part of the rally (my family is Pro-Trump), he was essentially "You know what I heard? The courts struck down my latest Travel Ban even though I made it more fair! But I won't call out the Courts because then the nasty news will call me a terrible person, and I don't want that." That was what he said, basically.

I know it would be a waste of their time, but part of me wants the Dems to draw up a full bill for a universal healthcare system, and show how many people it would cover. Just as a comparison to Ryan Care.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.