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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
With respect, this seems a little too convenient by half. Depending on a given territory's initial motives for breaking away, that provides a built-in, no-fault excuse for suppressing independence in perpetuity ... whatever turns subsequent history takes.
The South?
edited 9th Mar '17 5:16:14 PM by Jhimmibhob
And self-determination, like freedom, has a meaning that can be abused. note It's limits aren't obvious, but anyone claiming "self-determination" because the government is "repressing" their right to own other humans and dominate a rigid oligarchy insults the whole concept of self-determination. Invoking self-determination for such an unworthy cause—that incidentally denies another cardinal human right—cheapens the concept just that much more.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:16:34 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our livesHey, if the former Confederate states decided to rebel on the pretense of, say, socialised healthcare, redistribution of wealth or improved civil rights, I could see an argument for secession.
As it is it's almost always wanky Lost Cause or States' Rights arguments that are all dogwhistle language for slavery or not being allowed to treat minorities like dirt.
Again, fuck 'em.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.To be more specific, the Confederacy.
It is understandable to feel that you do not share much in terms of fellowship with other people in the country you are supposed to live in. In theory this might provide part of an understandable reason for emancipation, among other reasons.
But the American Civil War went a bit deeper than just that, no?
If I understand your argument, you are essentially postulating that self-determination is something that should be respected even if one disagrees with the reasoning given behind it. I on the other hand think that the reasons for that self-determination are important to evaluate in order to decide whether it should be something you should support or not.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:22:45 PM by Draghinazzo
Trump shennaningans:
Trump administration looking to make it harder for children to qualify as unaccompanied minors.
Long story short, children who came to the border either unaccompanied or not accompanied by a parent or legal guardian got special protections and rights under the law. Often these children have family living in the States already, legally or illegally. DHS wants to strip the protections of the vast majority of these children, on the basis of "They're not really unaccompanied if they have family here already" and make it easier to deport the kids, their families, or charge the families with human trafficking.
She had a federal prosecutor and an interpreter but no lawyer. She was at the court for hours, and every so often Fabiola would look up at the adults the room, raise her finger and warn them: “I don’t want anyone in here to give me a shot,” she would say in Spanish.
Fabiola thought she was at the doctor's office. Adults at the court assured her that they don’t give shots there, but Fabiola was skeptical.
Fabiola fled Guatemala without a parent or legal guardian. She walked for months with a friend of her grandmother's. Under rules set by former President Barack Obama, Fabiola is considered an “unaccompanied minor" because she made the journey without a parent or legal guardian. With that classification comes special protections mandated by Congress.
According to proposals from President Donald Trump, Fabiola wouldn't be considered unaccompanied because she was reunited with her mother who lives in New York.
Fabiola was apprehended at the border about two months ago. She was separated from her grandmother's friend, held in Customs and Border Protection detention for three days, then sent to a shelter in Chicago. Twenty days later, she was released to her mother.
This is the standard process for unaccompanied children. If their parents are living in the U.S., they can step forward and claim their kids. The process can take months.
“It’s the most horrible experience there is,” Fabiola’s mother said. “Besides the anguish of her journey here ... I didn’t know where she was, if she was okay, if they were treated her well.”
According to a February 17, 2017 memo from Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, “approximately 60 percent of minors initially determined to be ‘unaccompanied alien children’ are placed in the care of one or more parents illegally residing in the United States."
Kelly called it an abuse, and has asked agencies to develop a system to reclassify those children.
Benson says that means kids can be deported the day they arrive at the border, and without any hearing.
And there’s another big change outlined in Trump's plans: if a parent living in the U.S. illegally comes forward to claim their children, like Fabiola’s mom, the memo says federal agents may place the parents into removal proceedings or refer them for criminal prosecution because they would be seen as facilitating "the smuggling or trafficking of alien children into the United States."
Because fuck human decency.
Flynn’s firm took on the Inovo job late in the campaign, in late August, and was paid $530,000 for consulting work on behalf of the company during the final stretch of the presidential campaign. “The new documents show Inovo wrote six-figure checks to Flynn's firm in September and October as he served as a top national security aide on Trump's campaign,” USA Today reports. “The final payment of $145,000 came on Nov. 14, 2016, just days after Trump captured the presidency.”
Here’s more on the filing from USA Today:
As part of its contract with Inovo, the Flynn Intel Group hired researchers to examine Fethullah Gulen, a reclusive Islamic cleric who lives in exile in rural Pennsylvania. Erdogan has blamed Gulen's opposition group for an attempted 2016 coup and has sought his extradition. On Election Day, The Hill newspaper published a Flynn op-ed that called Gulen "radical cleric" and said the U.S. government should "not provide him a safe haven."
In its filings with the Justice Department, Flynn's firm said the op-ed was not published at the request of Inovo or the Turkish government but said Inovo did review a draft before Flynn submitted it.
Flynn also disclosed meeting with the Turkish businessman, Ekim Alptekin, along with Turkey's ministers of foreign affairs and energy in New York City in mid-September, according to the Associated Press.
A foreign agent working for the Trump campaign during the election, and becoming part of his administration afterward. What are the odds?
| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |![]()
It certainly did go deeper than that, a lot. I've no sympathy for most of the reasons the Confederacy started the war, and given the realities of slavery, it's a mercy—a moral imperative—that the war turned out as it did. But that doesn't mean one has to like the side that won, either. And it doesn't mean one has to assume a shit-eating grin and be eternally content under their rule.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:25:11 PM by Jhimmibhob
At least you admit it, for which you gain some measure of credibility. This whole "War of Northern Aggression" bullshit, trying to blame everything on the Damn Yankees, is really getting tiresome.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:31:33 PM by pwiegle
This Space Intentionally Left Blank.![]()
Actually, I think they were arguing that the North was the lesser of two evils.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:40:10 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!![]()
Exactly. They don't want the same representation as everyone else; they want to have representation over everybody else, because they only believe in The Land of the Free(TM) when it isn't The Land of the Free.(TM) As far as they're concerned, the North can go fuck themselves.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:58:45 PM by kkhohoho
The South has a ...history, and still shows obvious tells of why the US should have completed reconstruction.
And the region has an outsize influence on politics. Southern M Cs blocked social measures for decades, and the modern South was the stronghold of both the Dixiecrats and now the GOP. The growth of the Sun Belt only increased its prominence.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:58:59 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our livesAnd prisoners are predominantly poor and/or minority individuals. Gee, what a coincidence.
Technically, the USA is a patchwork of different cultures that are varied between region to region, and even state to state. In some ways, you could argue that every region in the USA are distinct entities from one another, at least culturally. I mean, are we going to argue that Alabama has the same Culture as California? I highly doubt it. This definitely does not justify secession or the Civil War in any way, though. I'm just pointing out something obvious.
Also, the 3/5th's Compromise didn't actually give the South more power in terms of representation: The south was still heavily underpopulated at the time, and since Black Slaves were not counted as Citizens, them being 3/5th as person didn't actually help them at all. This map of the 1860 Election
showed that most Slave owning States had a hard time having over 10 Representatives (only 5 did), while 6 Free States had over 10 Representatives.
edited 9th Mar '17 6:11:43 PM by DingoWalley1

Especially if they also kick in the door and try to shoot me in the face because they know I might try and slap their hand off the slavery button.
Fuck the Confederates.
edited 9th Mar '17 5:02:21 PM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.