TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#177201: Mar 7th 2017 at 12:21:40 PM

Trump supports Ryancare, disregards Teapublican words that it won't pass, promises to bring down Drug Prices. All through Twitter.

Wonder how mad he'll be if the Teapublicans do kill it off?

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#177202: Mar 7th 2017 at 12:33:13 PM

He'll blame the Democrats, of course.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#177203: Mar 7th 2017 at 12:39:37 PM

Are... are you sure you have the right person? I mean, I don't know about the economic stuff so much or some other things you mentioned in your post, (although I know you mentioned military buildup, and I've heard military retention was terrible in the Carter years, people were leaving the service in droves and Carter and company were trying to lower fitness standards and raise incentives for service members just to keep from losing everyone at once) but Carter was no race baiter, as far as I know. The man choose to send his young daughter to a poor, almost entirely black school during his time in office, threatened to use the IRS to crack down on churches and Christian "Universities" who were preaching against integration, (which is why the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons, and Bob Jones University types had such a love boner for Reagan, despite the fact that Carter was a deeply religious Sunday School teacher while Reagan was a heathen Hollywood actor who consulted astrology more than the Bible and palled around with Christ killing Jews) and after leaving office Carter went out and took part in eradicating diseases and parasites that only affect Africans.

Doesn't mean a damn thing. You can race bait without being a racist in order to win votes just like Trump talked about draining the swamp without doing a damn thing about it.

And here's an example of race baiting which is pretty tame now compared to Trump:

In April 1976, Carter said: “I see nothing wrong with ethnic purity being maintained. I would not force a racial integration of a neighborhood by government action.” A few days later, questioned about this remark, Carter elaborated: “What I say is that the government ought not to take as a major purpose the intrusion of alien groups into a neighborhood simply to establish their intrusion."

Jesse Jackson called it a an example of Hitlerian racism.

And then you have crap like this when he was running for governor of Georgia:

In 1970 Jimmy Carter ran a sordid campaign for governor of Georgia. Courting the support of segregationist George Wallace, Carter used Wallace’s slogan “our kind of man,” which was a barely veiled appeal to the laboring classes who opposed integration. Carter’s campaign workers, who called themselves the “stink tank,” found a photograph showing Carter’s liberal opponent Carl Sanders (who was part owner of the Atlanta Hawks) celebrating with the black members of the team after winning a championship. The photograph was meant to sully Sanders by associating him with alcohol and African Americans.

These weren’t the only examples of race-baiting in the campaign. Carter’s campaign also informed voters that Sanders had attended the funeral of Martin Luther King, Jr. Carter sought the endorsement of a former White Citizens’ Council president. “Carter ran as a George Wallace segregationist,” later recalled Sanders. “He put me in the position of being a liberal integrationist.” As Randall Balmer documents in his terrific book Redeemer: The Life of Jimmy Carter, the candidate’s overtures to white segregationists worked. He won his Democratic primary over Sanders and then went on win the general election. Sanders was so angry that he refused to attend Carter’s inauguration.

This is the same crap that Trump's side does. Now Carter does explain that he didn't mean any of it and funnily enough I kind of believe him but in this case the ends did not justify the means.

He justified it using Nieburian logic. One of Carter’s lifelong mantras was his desire, borrowed from Reinhold Niebuhr, “to establish justice in a sinful world.” He could do much good, he thought, if only he could get to the governor’s mansion. “You won’t like my campaign,” Carter had warned Vernon Jordan, president of the National Urban League, “but you will like my administration.” This was a frank admission of a means-justifies-the-ends political methodology.

Anti-hero Carter.

Carter brought out the evangelicals into national spotlight in the first time for a while and Reagan stole them away from him after he didn't perform to their expectations.

Now they're running rampant in the GOP.

edited 7th Mar '17 12:41:01 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#177204: Mar 7th 2017 at 12:46:11 PM

And if you want to believe his former CIA director, Carter also helped arm the Mujahideen which fathered the Taliban.

http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#177205: Mar 7th 2017 at 12:59:00 PM

What is the source you are quoting from in your above post?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#177206: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:00:20 PM

That's old news, everyone knows our involvement with the Mujahideen. Hell Bin Laden was trained by the CIA.

He was in our papers even.

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#177207: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:03:33 PM

That is the most darkly amusing thing I have seen all week.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#177208: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:09:03 PM

http://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2017/03/07/glep-devos-resignation-naeyaert--violence/98845454/

Head of DeVos-backed group resigns in wake of domestic abuse comments

The head of a school choice advocacy group founded by Betsy De Vos, the newly minted U.S. Secretary of Education, has resigned in the wake of comments he made about domestic violence during a legislative committee hearing last week.

The official statement from the Great Lakes Education Project, where Gary Naeyaert was executive director, says the organization "is taking some time to reorganize to best continue the advocacy of quality school choice options for all Michigan K-12 students."

But Naeyaert drew fire after a Feb. 28 Senate Education Committee meeting in which he talked about his frustration with Natasha Baker, the state school reform officer whose office has drawn fire for identifying 38 chronically failing schools for potential closure.

"I wanted to shake her, like I like to shake my wife when every option in front of you is not possible. They’re all equally unattractive to you. Like when I ask her where to go to dinner and she says anywhere, and I say Steak and Shake, and she says, not Steak and Shake."

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#177210: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:24:32 PM

Even if all of that is accurate it doesnt make him a "proto-Reagan".

10-real-facts-about-ronald-reagan-that-republicans-never-choose-to-admit

Reagan and Racism

Wikipedia

NPR

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#177211: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:35:54 PM

Isn't it a myth that AQ and Bin Laden were trained by the CIA though?

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#177212: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:37:06 PM

Bin Laden most assuredly received US assistance in Afghanistan.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#177213: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:38:22 PM

Calling Carter a proto Reagan is probably the in the top 5 most batshit ignorant and insulting thing I've read in this thread.

Dear lord, what the actual fuck am I reading?

New Survey coming this weekend!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#177214: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:38:43 PM

No, these are things that aren't even really secrets. Like I said, he was in our newspapers back in the day.

Oh really when?
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#177215: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:40:05 PM

[up][up][up][up] More of a technical truth that overlooks another aspect of things; the CIA and SIS had physical advisors on the ground, but funneled material and financial resources through the plausible deniability provided by the Pakistani government. It was the latter that saw an opportunity to selectively favor the militant groups it preferred over others.

edited 7th Mar '17 1:40:37 PM by FluffyMcChicken

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#177216: Mar 7th 2017 at 1:58:52 PM

[up][up][up] I mean that's in addition to that other stuff.

Moving his party to the right. That was Carter.

Dismantling parts of the New Deal. That was Carter.

Bringing the evangelicals into the national field. That was Carter.

Race-baiting to win the presidency. That was Carter.

Neoliberal president peddling supply side economics. That was Carter.

Feeding the military machine. That was Carter.

Moving focus to the Middle East. That was Carter.

When I say he was proto-Reagan, I don't mean they're exact copies but I do think that a lot of the things that Reagan popularized were used by his direct predecessor.

Carter and Reagan were a two hit KO to Social Democracy in the US.

Carter dragged his party to the right and Reagan dragged his party even further right.

Now that's not to say Carter didn't do good because he did but he was the big pivot for the Democrats same as Reagan was for the Republicans.

Here's a good article on it.

And depending on whether you can trust a left-wing source there's this.

edited 7th Mar '17 2:00:49 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#177217: Mar 7th 2017 at 2:04:19 PM

@Tactical I know he's a Democratic president but we can acknowledge that his presidency was a mess and it's easy to draw parallels between Carter and Reagan.

Now Carter was a much better human being of course who thought he had some destiny to do good even if that meant getting your hands dirty to get in the position to do good.

Hell, New Republic compares Trump to Carter. I'm pretty nice by comparison.

edited 7th Mar '17 2:09:35 PM by MadSkillz

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#177218: Mar 7th 2017 at 2:12:25 PM

The funding of the Mujahedin warriors in Afghanistan wasn't exactly tied to the Taliban, Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. The Mujahedin by themselves were a loosely organized groups of warlords and guerrilla fighters fighting against the Soviet occupation and puppet government of Afghanistan.

During that time the already radicalized Osama Bin Laden went to Pakistan to aid the Sunni guerrillas in Afghanistan, so basically Bin Laden was another of the many willing to move to Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets and whatever else they didn't like such as Shia groups.

However once the Soviets left and the US stopped supplying money and weapons, those groups of Mujahedin were suddenly in a power vacuum and internal squabbles created a civil war that engulfed what was left of Afghanistan.

During that time, after many warlords died and other groups either got wiped out or disbanded two main factions would struggle for the control of the country: The group that became known as Taliban and the Northern Alliance, which was a collection of two major tribal leaders opposing the Taliban.

The Taliban during that time the Taliban gained the upper hand and controlled most of Afghanistan with the exception of the northern mountain regions of Afghanistan that were under control of the Northern Alliance, aided by the wealth of Bin Laden, the strongest group to rise and take power, which provided Bin Laden a safe haven and training ground for his newly formed group: The Al-Qaeda.

The rest is recent history.

But to sum things up: It is unlikely that the US and CIA directly dealt with Bin Laden, however it is highly likely that Bin Laden received US money to fight in Afghanistan through the Pakistani Intelligence Service, which still had a strong connection with Bin Laden even as the War on Terror developed.

However that feeling of deja vu towards the treatment of the Syrian Civil War lingers.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#177219: Mar 7th 2017 at 3:08:20 PM

However that feeling of deja vu towards the treatment of the Syrian Civil War lingers.

Who would you say is the Pakistan for the Syrian Civil War? Because if you look at it that was the big problem, trusting Pakistan to arm reasonable groups, the ones armed by the CIA or MI 6 directly stayed reasonably loyal, it's the ones Pakistan snuck US money and weapons to that turned into the Taliban.

edited 7th Mar '17 3:08:30 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#177220: Mar 7th 2017 at 3:20:41 PM

2 Senate Democrats request Trump's Tax Returns in the name of National Security. The last request was turned down but now that it's being framed as a National Security issue, it'll be harder to turn down. The ball is now in Sen. Orrin Hatch's (R-Utah) court.

EDIT: The CIA has begun giving raw intelligence on Trump-Russia Ties to members of Congress from both sides.

It's only a matter of time before it actually starts...

edited 7th Mar '17 3:56:56 PM by DingoWalley1

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#177221: Mar 7th 2017 at 4:23:07 PM

[up][up]Two Pakistans in Syria.

Iran for the Shia and Saudi Arabia for the Sunni with Russia (more of Assad than Iran tho) being the sugar daddy of the former and US of the latter.

Anyway whatever mess comes out of it, won't be pretty and surely will give the future US administrations a lot more headaches and I am expecting Trump to make things worse.

Inter arma enim silent leges
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#177222: Mar 7th 2017 at 4:37:10 PM

The new GOP repeal and replace bill for Obamacare is fucked two ways from Sunday. Very few people like the thing, with some of those very few people being Trump (because it is getting rid of Obamacare) and Ryan (who made the thing). Here are a few reasons:

AARP is against it.

The Koch brothers' SuperPAC Freedom Partners (warning PDF) is against it.

The Senate's own rules could end up killing it.

Rumor is Breitbart is planning on running an ugly war against it.

I'm probably missing a lot, but still.

Here's an image of a Breitbart article attacking the bill.

edited 7th Mar '17 4:38:39 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#177223: Mar 7th 2017 at 4:48:35 PM

I'm still waiting for it to pass just because the world seems to love screwing us over.

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#177224: Mar 7th 2017 at 5:06:25 PM

Well given that the reason some of those groups are denouncing it is because it's not screwing us over enough...

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#177225: Mar 7th 2017 at 5:12:38 PM

[up][up][up]Who says, it'll be on the US? It'll take a president with some great bravado and love of risk to take up the "leader of the free world" thing again, post-Trump. And that's assuming the US is still intact and able.
Non-interventionism, was already increasingly in vogue on the left, and Trump revived isolationism on the right. That plus memories of the WOT, especially among millennials and the giant humble pie that is Trump in the Oval Office will probably dampen appetites for even facing the world, in the US.

I suspect the buck'll past to Germany and Canada for moral authority and to Kratistos  for practical authority.

edited 7th Mar '17 5:20:03 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives

Total posts: 417,856
Top