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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#176051: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:24:50 PM

And yet, amazingly, Obama's platform was about as progressive as it got. Centrist my ass.

The Sanders wing is shorthand for the progressive wing of the Democratic party loyal to him.

No, it's not, because to imply that one must be loyal to Sanders in order to progressive is inane at best, a tautology at worst. One does not become progressive by swearing fealty to Sanders, and one can be plenty progressive without having anything to do with him. Or are you honestly going to try and tell me that Tulsi Gabbard's progressive bonafides are better than Joe Biden's, for instance?

edited 25th Feb '17 9:27:22 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#176052: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:25:09 PM

I stopped taking Sanders seriously the moment he ditched the Democratic Party after he lost the primaries.

Disgusted, but not surprised
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#176053: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:26:56 PM

Nobody can be trusted these days. sad

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#176054: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:28:10 PM

[up] You can trust Trump to be awful. Does that count?

Disgusted, but not surprised
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#176055: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:30:27 PM

Sanders is pretty bald-faced when it comes to opportunistically seizing the Party's apparatus for his own gain while refusing to participate in its inner workings. He gives Democrats the finger with one hand while pocketing Democratic cash with the other.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#176056: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:31:05 PM

@M84 - I'll take what I can, I suppose. XP

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#176057: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:31:44 PM

And he potentially has fractured the Democrats irreparably.

That's almost an unforgivable sin in my book.

New Survey coming this weekend!
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#176058: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:35:29 PM

Yeah, I'm not a Sanders fan by any stretch of the imagination, and I confess I'm already getting sick of seeing his fans moan about Perez winning the DNC chair.

They were both eminently qualified candidates, and now we have both of them running the DNC. We ought to be over the moon. Instead we're bickering over nothing while the GOP brings the country down around our ears.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#176059: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:35:40 PM

Thank God Bernie is old as dirt and not a young up-and-comer. Imagine if he had fifty years ahead of him to raise hell and undermine crucial allies?

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#176060: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:37:59 PM

No, it's not, because to imply that one must be loyal to Sanders in order to progressive is inane at best, a tautology at worst. One does not become progressive by swearing fealty to Sanders, and one can be plenty progressive without having anything to do with him. Or are you honestly going to try and tell me that Tulsi Gabbard's progressive bonafides are better than Joe Biden's, for instance?

You keep making leaps. I didn't say that either. I'm saying there's a branch of progressives in the Democratic party loyal to him. That is the Sanders wing. I didn't say all progressives are part of the Sanders wing as long as they swear loyalty to him. I did not say the progressive wing and the Sanders wing is the same although some people do think of it that way.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#176061: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:38:46 PM

[up][up][up][up]Eh, if it wasn't him it would've been someone else, and if it wasn't now it would be later.

edited 25th Feb '17 9:38:53 PM by Mio

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#176062: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:39:09 PM

The sad things, despite my misgivings about Sanders and his ilk, I still would have voted for him in the general election if he had won the primaries. I just really, really hope I don't have to face that situation in 2020. I'd prefer someone younger, more accomplished, someone who's actually a member of the Democratic Party...

edited 25th Feb '17 9:40:46 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#176063: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:40:45 PM

Oh, of course I'd have voted for Sanders if it came down to him vs. Trump. That's a no-brainer and I'd be a complete shithead not to.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#176064: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:40:53 PM

And yet, amazingly, Obama's platform was about as progressive as it got. Centrist my ass.

What he initially presented himself is different from what he did.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/obama-is-a-republican/

There is plenty of continuity between the Obama and Bush administration.

edited 25th Feb '17 9:42:47 PM by MadSkillz

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#176065: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:43:10 PM

Oh are we back to hating Sanders again? Nice to see people wishing for his death because they are annoyed by a bunch of Green Party trolls.

Please the 'Sanders wing' is wrongly named, it would be better if it was called the "superior wing", in that it's members care for nothing more than feeling superior to others. Sanders himself could have been elected DNC chair and they'd have turned on him the same way they did when he endorsed Clinton. Ellison would have been disavowed the moment he made Perez his deputy.

Thease people were never Democrats, they never voted for Democrats and they were never going to vote for Democrats. They're Green Party supporters playing games with us and they've got us all in a huff.

There will be a few genuine losses due to this desicions as there would have been no matter which way it went, but I'm not heavily concerned. In the end his is actually a gain for the progressive wing of the Democratic Party (who I fully trust to stick around), when it came to the presidential ticket they didn't get the top or bottom, but here they've captured the bottom half of the DNC chairmanship, it's actually a gain in power compared to previously.

edited 25th Feb '17 9:45:29 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#176066: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:46:50 PM

With regard to the incident in NOLA, no identity released yet but they are saying the driver was very drunk. (As one does in New Orleans around Mardi Gras.) 28 injured but no deaths at this time.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#176067: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:49:50 PM

Please the 'Sanders wing' is wrongly named, it would be better if it was called the "superior wing", in that it's members care for nothing more than feeling superior to others. Sanders himself could have been elected DNC chair and they'd have turned on him the same way they did when he endorsed Clinton. Ellison would have been disavowed the moment he made Perez his deputy. These people were never Democrats, they never voted for Democrats and they were never going to vote for Democrats. They're Green Party supporters playing games with us and they've got us all in a huff.

The Sanders wing is a much larger part of the party than the Bernie or Busters. It's pretty much the majority of young Democrat voters under 30. And it's not just about winning Democrats. It's also about winning independents.

Frankly the Green Party in its totality would end up smaller than the Sanders Wing.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#176068: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:53:17 PM

There is plenty of continuity between the Obama and Bush administration.

There is plenty of continuity between every administration and its predecessors and that you think this is some sort of killing point baffles me. You inherit the situations your predecessor created, and the apparatus they set up to deal with it.

I'm saying there's a branch of progressives in the Democratic party loyal to him

Even that's a stretch. Keith Ellison is not a Sanders drone. Elizabeth Warren is not a Sanders drone. Who are these Democrats who take their lead from Sanders? The only person I can think of who constantly tries to benefit from associating with Sanders is Gabbard and that's because she's actually a Trump fangirl and grifter using the fact that she supported him in the primaries to deflect attention from that.

The Sanders wing is a much larger part of the party than the Bernie or Busters. It's pretty much the majority of young Democrat voters under 30. And it's not just about winning Democrats. It's also about winning independents.

Sure it is. You basing this on anything beyond who voted for him in the primaries?

edited 25th Feb '17 9:58:02 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#176069: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:59:00 PM

[up][up] That's just the progressive wing, which has aligned itself with Sanders at times because he's a well known progressive figure. However the progressive wing predates Sanders, will be around after his time, has a number of other figures within it and is not actually about Sanders or lead by him.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#176070: Feb 25th 2017 at 9:59:38 PM

And a non-negligable portion of that wing does want to take over the Democratic party. (See link some pages ago where they pretty much succeeded in doing so in the California branch.)

IMO though having balance between the old guard and young Berners would be one of the better things that can be hoped for (ignoring for the moment whether it's actually likely). Getting everything they want fast is just not realistic. And I'm not sure all of their stated goals are actually achievable or desirable. (Some of that of course is the fiscal conservative in me talking.)

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#176071: Feb 25th 2017 at 10:02:47 PM

There is plenty of continuity between every administration and its predecessors and that you think this is some sort of killing point baffles me.

That's why I gave you a link to go read on how Obama's governed.

Even that's a stretch. Keith Ellison is not a Sanders drone. Elizabeth Warren is not a Sanders drone. Who are these Democrats who take their lead from Sanders? The only person I can think of who constantly tries to benefit from associating with Sanders is Gabbard and that's because she's actually a Trump fangirl and grifter using the fact that she supported him in the primaries to deflect attention from that.

I'm speaking of voters. But I'm guessing any progressive politicians that endorsed him over Hillary would count.

Here's a list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_presidential_campaign_endorsements,_2016

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#176072: Feb 25th 2017 at 10:22:28 PM

So do we all agree that there's something rotten in the system itself?

Do we think it's just a case of a crazy Republcan Party?

Do we think there's some heavy rot in the Democratic Party too? Or are we fine with the way it is?

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#176073: Feb 25th 2017 at 10:42:12 PM

It's broadly fine. Given how the world works, it'd be surprising if there wasn't some corrupt individuals lurking in there somewhere, but at the moment I feel that making sure they don't get hijacked by extremists and promoting unity is more important than ferreting out any rot that may have snuck in under the radar.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#176074: Feb 25th 2017 at 11:16:05 PM

Really? That stupid Bernie discussion ist still going on?

I guess nobody reacted to my question if we already discussed the notion that Trump can't properly read.....

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#176075: Feb 25th 2017 at 11:17:23 PM

[up] He supposedly reads, speaks, and fucking tweets at a fourth-grade level. Actually, that might be insulting to actual fourth-graders.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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