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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#175876: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:07:55 PM

Has Bernie even said anything about Perez winning?

edited 25th Feb '17 3:08:02 PM by Kostya

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#175877: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:08:11 PM

One thing for sure, the Bernie fans go on my last nerve. It's like Trump keeping griping about the votes...it's over, and the myth that Bernie would have somehow won (unlikely) just distracts from the actual issues with this election process.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175878: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:09:13 PM

So that's why Bernie won all those states in the South and didn't get destroyed in majority-Minority states...

I don't think you understood what I said. I said younger minority voters preferred Bernie to Hillary.

Older minority voters preferred Hillary to him.

Older people vote in bigger numbers than young people.

This is more a generational divide.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:10:05 PM by MadSkillz

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#175879: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:09:35 PM

Bernie has congratulated Perez on the win.

Ellison has been very gracious and the two are looking forward to working as a team.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175880: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:09:43 PM

According to his Twitter feed, Sanders congratulated Perez, and then said that Democrats can't turn against their progressive roots.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175881: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:09:48 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]He congratulated him in a tweet and said he looked forward to working with the Democrats under Perez' leadership.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:10:23 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#175882: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:10:02 PM

I'm still confused about where his rabid fanbase even came from. Because Sanders really isn't that inspiring. He's not even that different. Yeah, he's an independent, but he was one of the state senators for Vermont for so long that he's definitely part of the establishment.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#175883: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:10:08 PM

Honestly, I think Bernie would have won with a worse popular vote margin, because as it turns out, it's hard to beat racist working-class white populism with non-racist working-class white populism.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#175884: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:11:29 PM

He has exactly one thing going for him: He isn't Hillary. Apparently a lot of people couldn't stand the thought of her becoming president.

Btw, did we already discuss the theory that Trump has trouble with reading?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#175885: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:11:55 PM

[up][up][up] The establishment being talked about was the democratic and Republican party brass; the latter was thoroughly discredited by the tea party movement followed by a final nail in the coffin in the form of Trump, the latter still maintains control over their party, and this particular election was the first engagement in what will likely be a protracted battle over party leadership.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:13:02 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175886: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:12:26 PM

Eh, the RNC apparently had a really nasty (as in worse than Hillary's) opposition research file on Sanders. I'm not confident that between the shit in his closet, and the fact that he's an openly socialist, non-religious, Jew would have done him any favors (no matter how wrong it is to not vote for some on those last two basis).

edited 25th Feb '17 3:19:22 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#175887: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:12:43 PM

I could buy that some of the WWC would have chosen Sanders over Trump, but I don't really know that we have enough data to make these kinds of assertions.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175888: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:13:45 PM

I'm still confused about where his rabid fanbase even came from. Because Sanders really isn't that inspiring. He's not even that different. Yeah, he's an independent, but he was one of the state senators for Vermont for so long that he's definitely part of the establishment.

He was able to sell himself off as incorruptible and he seemed like a genuinely nice person.

It's a cult of personality similar to Trump's but he also found an outlet for anti-corporation hate that Hillary could not take advantage of because she was seen as in bed with Wall Street

If anything, it helps that he wasn't part of the Democrat Party because that means that he wasn't part of any corruption that people saw in the Democrat Party.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#175889: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:13:58 PM

Sanders would've been buried in the Midwest and Florida as soon as his comments on Fidel Castro and breadlines came out.

Not to mention him and Jane are still profiting off of the waste he voted to dump into a Latino community neighborhood.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175890: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:16:33 PM

Yes, there were things the Republicans could have used against Bernie. A lot of things, really.

Doesn't make the Democratic talking point that he was unelectable any less a pile of bullshit, though, considering they ended up nominating a PR disaster in Hillary Clinton.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#175891: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:17:21 PM

If Perez's election causes people to leave the Democratic party en masse (which I don't think it will, for the awful reason that there's no alternative), maybe you should blame the people who explicitly said to them 'we don't want you' by electin Perez? Since, again, the fact that Perez entered the race because the Obama wing didn't want to see a Sanders democrat as chairman is not a conspiracy theory, but pretty much confirmed by the (former) White House themselves. I thought the people around here hated 'purity tests'?

So that's why Bernie won all those states in the South and didn't get destroyed in majority-Minority states... Oh. Wait.
Because Clinton was extremely popular with minorities as well? One doesn't exclude the other, and Sanders right now is probably the most popular Democrat among minorities (except maybe for Obama?) anyway.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175892: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:21:30 PM

Sanders would've been buried in the Midwest and Florida as soon as his comments on Fidel Castro and breadlines came out. Not to mention him and Jane are still profiting off of the waste he voted to dump into a Latino community neighborhood.

I don't think it really would've mattered. Bernie's cult of personality was near on equal to Trump's. It would all depend on if he could bounce them away like Trump.

It helps that Bernie has a lot of starting advantages that Hillary doesn't like being male, seen as sincere, outside the establishment, a cult of personality, a numbers advantage in the Midwest and wasn't currently being investigated.

But not enough info to know for sure. We do know that his campaign wouldn't have been stupid enough to ignore the Midwest though which was key to Trump's victory.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175893: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:23:30 PM

[up][up]Whether or not the 'Obama wing' did that doesn't mean that people attacking Perez aren't doing some bullshit 'purity test' things. When there's an argument over something stupid, anyone who refuses to drop it is being an idiot, no matter which side of said argument they're on.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:23:51 PM by Gilphon

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#175894: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:24:05 PM

[up][up] Sanders's "cult of personality" and for that matter Trump's is very similar to the cult of personality Obama had during his first run for the Presidency. That kinda deflated over the years as the reality of the Obama presidency failed to live up to the unrealistic expectations many had, and he didn't do much to stoke it like Trump is constantly doing.

[up] It's less a purity test and more the first round of what's almost certainly going to be a protracted contest of wills between the party brass and people who think there needs to be a change in management.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:25:16 PM by CaptainCapsase

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#175895: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:25:01 PM

[up][up] seriously, why are we bashing the "obama wing" now? Why the conspiracy theories?

edited 25th Feb '17 3:25:18 PM by fruitpork

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#175896: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:26:06 PM

[up] It's not even a conspiracy theory, it was outright side by several of Obama's associates that Perez was in the running to prevent someone affiliated with Sanders from taking the DNC chair. This election was less about ideology than it was the first proxy battle in a war over control of the party, not unlike what's happening in the labor party in the UK, and what will most likely continue happening until democracy in America has become something of a farce or someone manages to win this contest of wills decisively.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:29:45 PM by CaptainCapsase

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175897: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:28:04 PM

seriously, why are we bashing the "obama wing" now? Why the conspiracy theories?

People have been bashing it for years now. The Obama wing is the same wing as Hillary's. Sometimes for good reasons and sometimes for bad reasons.

edited 25th Feb '17 3:28:39 PM by MadSkillz

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#175898: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:28:16 PM

Trump has claimed that he won't attend the White House Correspondent's Dinner. I guess he needs his safe space from the press

Of course he won't attend it, it's the Nerd Prom!

Do not obey in advance.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175899: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:32:19 PM

Also something that's missed is this dispiriting piece of news of what happened right before the DNC vote. I'll include someone else's comment on it:

Perez was the old guard's candidate. He will welcome corporate contributions and influence. If you look back in history you will see thst even a moderate shift to the left by the party would still give us a party that is to the right of Nixon. What is needed in the face of the beginnings of fascism is a fundamental restructuring and reorientation of the democratic party. The delegates to the DNC did not make that decision. Below is a quote from Commondreams that shows what we can expect from the DNC and Perez.

=================

Ahead of the vote for chair, the DNC's meeting got off to what one political observer described as a "very, very bad start." The Huffington Post reports:

"Democratic National Committee members on Saturday voted down a resolution that would have reinstated former President Barack Obama’s ban on corporate political action committee donations to the party.

Resolution 33, introduced by DNC Vice Chair Christine Pelosi, would also have forbidden “registered, federal corporate lobbyists” from serving as “DNC chair-appointed, at-large members.”

A majority of the 442 eligible DNC members rejected the resolution after roughly a dozen members rose to speak for and against it."

edited 25th Feb '17 3:33:48 PM by MadSkillz

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175900: Feb 25th 2017 at 3:34:29 PM

The sad truth is that you can't compete without corporate money if your opponent takes it by the truckload.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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