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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

StFan Since: Jan, 2001
#175826: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:02:55 PM

I didn't see this covered here yet: Trump tries to picture European countries, and Paris in particular, as djihadist hellholes.

The French president wasn't long to respond.

Honestly, I'm puzzled it took so long for the new Republican administration to say something bad about France. Remind me of those good old French-bashing times.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175827: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:04:57 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#175828: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:07:41 PM

@Mio: On his love for lobbyist money.

I guess you don't need a source saying that Perez hasn't any electoral experience, but it's noteworthy that even some of his fellow Democrats say he was a ridiculous choice.

Ellison had both progressive and 'establishment' support, including John Lewis, Gloria Steinem, Chuck Schumer, organizations like Move On, most major labour unions, even former labour Secretary Hilda Solis (while both Perez and Solis have been active in the Obama administration) backed him. The only noteworthy Dem who endorsed Perez was Biden.

On dirty campaign tactics, trying to pit racial groups against each other by casting Sanders as a candidate of whites.

By the way, circumstantial, but have I mentioned that one of the people fighting against Ellison's campaign was a major Jewish donor of the DNC, and an extreme islamophobe? Just shows you how 'inclusive' these people are.

edited 25th Feb '17 1:19:17 PM by Perian

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175829: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:08:12 PM

I'm of the opinion that anyone willing to abandon the Dems over this are people we didn't really want to be calling the shots anyway. I agree that Ellison would've been slightly better optics, but that's as far as the impact of this decision goes.

Like, probably Perez would've been deputy if Ellison had won, so they were both going to end up being influential figures in the DNC either way.

JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#175830: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:22:29 PM

Jesus Christ, I can't even. Are we really having a fight over the fucking DNC chair?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#175831: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:25:28 PM

Tom Perez has just been elected DNC chair. Seems like the Dems really love president Trump.

Oh look, baseless hyperbole.

: On his love for lobbyist money.

Surprise, surprise, a link to The Intercept. Nothing says "we should believe this story" like finding out it came from Randroid-turned-revolutionary Glenn Greenwald.

On dirty campaign tactics, trying to pit racial groups against each other by casting Sanders as a candidate of whites.

He was. He openly wrote off black support for Clinton as coming from the Confederacy. He blathered on about the "white working class" until he was virtually blue in the face and continues to do so. He's still doing it too.

You wanna blame somebody for Sanders being perceived that way, try blaming Sanders for having such incompetent messaging.

By the way, circumstantial, but have I mentioned that one of the people fighting against Ellison's campaign was a major Jewish donor of the DNC, and an extreme islamophobe? Just shows you how 'inclusive' these people are.

And who pray tell are "these people"? Establishment Democrats? People who don't like Sanders? Jews?

Fact—given some time I could find someone just as repellent among Ellison's supporters. You know why I don't bother? Because I'm aware Ellison's a good guy and feel no need to smear him. Shame you don't feel the same way.

If anyone truly believes that a candidate who only entered the race because the Obama people couldn't let a Sanders democrat win can be a unity candidate, I've got a bridge to sell you.

The Obama people. Yes, it's all a plot by Obama. The most progressive president in recent memory and his supporters are single handedly conspiring to keep the party in the hands of the evil neoliberals.

Isn't amazing how whenever a Sanders supporter or ally loses at something it's time for cries of conspiracy and corruption?

It does to the Bernie or Bust idiots. I'm already seeing people saying they're not voting for anymore Democrats until they learn their lesson.

Here's the thing though—Ellison's a good guy and isn't going to just be a puppet for Sanders and the fringe that loves him. If he'd won the Bros would have been happy for about a week. Then he'd have disagreed with their messiah on something and we'd be right back to where we are.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#175832: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:31:30 PM

Letting perfect be the enemy of the good (for those who support Ellison) is only going to doom the Dems.

I actually feel that this applies much more to the Democratic leadership in this case. Many high-ranking democrats were leery about Ellison for several reasons, but he was still in a much better position to unify the party's constituencies then any of the other candidates.

Whether it's fair to call him that or not Perez was the candidate of the party elite. He inserted himself fairly late in the game, likely as a "compromise" candidate, with the only thing really going for him over Ellison was that he was someone that the party leadership was more comfortable with him and the endorsement of the out-going administration. Not a small thing, but necessarily what the party needs at the monment.

Well, whatever. Ultimately both of them are high up in the Party structure so hopefully it shouldn't matter who got picked. As long as one, the other, or both can keep the Dems from going full UK Labor then it's good.

@Perian: I'm rather skeptical about that given those sources are not known to be reputable. Though I hope that Ellsion's rather mild criticism of Israel really wasn't what did him in.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#175833: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:31:40 PM

Do these idiots not seriously realize that the DNC's job is to get Democrats elected not to enact policy?

Like...I can't right now.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#175834: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:37:46 PM

If Ellison is such a good guy, then why was Perez in the race?

Ellison has been more outspoken about getting money out of politics, and that got some Dems scared, and here we are.

Professionals like Perez do have a place in the party, but I'm not sure this is it. Regardless, we'll find out by the end of next year.

Perian Since: Jun, 2016
#175835: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:43:29 PM

Surprise, surprise, a link to The Intercept. Nothing says "we should believe this story" like finding out it came from Randroid-turned-revolutionary Glenn Greenwald.

Are there any falsehoods in the article?

He was. He openly wrote off black support for Clinton as coming from the Confederacy. He blathered on about the "white working class" until he was virtually blue in the face and continues to do so. He's still doing it too.

No, he didn't. He never even used the words 'confederacy' but simply pointed out that these states tend to vote Republican. Besides, have you seen his favorability ratings among minorities? Surely that is because he doesn't appeal to them. Anyway, that doesn't excuse the fact that Perez deliberately tried to promote a 'race war' narrative.

And who pray tell are "these people"? Establishment Democrats? People who don't like Sanders? Jews? Fact—given some time I could find someone just as repellent among Ellison's supporters. You know why I don't bother? Because I'm aware Ellison's a good guy and feel no need to smear him. Shame you don't feel the same way.
Are you really trying to accuse me of anti-semitism? I meant 'people whose votes might have been swayed by that', i.e. not wanting to lose this donor's money.

The Obama people. Yes, it's all a plot by Obama. The most progressive president in recent memory and his supporters are single handedly conspiring to keep the party in the hands of the evil neoliberals.
You realize that people from the White House have said that themselves? So I'd appreciate if you stopped belittling me.

edited 25th Feb '17 1:43:50 PM by Perian

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175836: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:49:47 PM

Yeah I'm seeing quite a bit of disgruntled Dems that are calling quits on the Democrat party not just online but among some acquaintances too on Facebook.

Perez was not the way to go. Although making Ellison deputy chair was a good idea. It would've been preferable to elect Ellison though and make Perez deputy chair.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#175837: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:52:44 PM

Enough with this.

Perez is a great guy and nobody has made these people make him into the villain but themselves. The most radical and progressive union in the country supported this guy, and he has a history of working alongside progressives. He has an amazing record in the Civil rights division of the DOJ and the Labor Department. He's the best labor secretary since Frances Perkins.

Stop making this into a way to relitigate the primaries.

edited 25th Feb '17 1:54:00 PM by Lightysnake

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#175838: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:56:29 PM

If the Democratic Party does sink because of this, it'll be because of these whiny jackasses not getting their way and throwing all their toys out of the pram, not through any fault of Perez's. I was rooting for Perez and I'm happy he won the seat.

Sigh. It's the primaries all over again. I don't suppose the fact that he immediately made Ellison vice chair and they obviously have the utmost respect for each other will matter to anybody. Nor do most of them seem to care about Perez's actual history or policies - they just hear "not Bernie's boy" and throw a tantrum.

[up] Hear, hear! This is not the time for infighting. And I'd say this if Ellison won as well.

edited 25th Feb '17 1:57:19 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175839: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:59:34 PM

Any Democrat who quits the party now is essentially enabling the Republicans. And everything that Trump does.

edited 25th Feb '17 1:59:53 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#175840: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:59:57 PM

Looks like Trump isn't going to attend his first Correspondent's Dinner.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175841: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:01:57 PM

Massive infighting happening over this was always the only way I could see this race having a bad outcome. Even if this was an argument worth having, which I'm not convinced it is, the time to have is not the time when the Left needs to be united against Trump.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#175842: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:04:17 PM

[up][up]Cowardly baby.

Or should I say, snowflake.evil grin

Seriously, any politician that can't have a laugh at their own expense is one to be avoided.

edited 25th Feb '17 2:11:19 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#175843: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:08:57 PM

If Trump Isn't going to attend they should just invite obama back so he can roast him

edited 25th Feb '17 2:09:17 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#175844: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:11:56 PM

Honestly, I'm glad he's ditching, because it means we don't have to suffer from whatever "comedian" he would approve to headline it.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#175845: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:15:06 PM

[up][up][up]The real irony of that is that the alt-right and many "conservatives" are every bit the "snowflakes" they accuse their political opponents of being.

Many of them are obnoxious edgelords who think they understand the way the world works just because they assume the worst from pretty much everyone who isn't just like them, but the moment you call them out on anything or get at their insecurities they throw an enormous hissy fit. It's pathetic.

edited 25th Feb '17 2:15:41 PM by Draghinazzo

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#175846: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:24:04 PM

Looks like Trump isn't going to attend his first Correspondent's Dinner.

Compare to Obama, who owned every. single. one.

To the point that people thought he'd have a future as a standup comedian or comedy news anchor.

I, uh, would watch that, folks.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#175847: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:24:41 PM

Yeah expect massive in-fighting.

It's not really about the importance of the post but about the direction of the party. It's a symbolic loss for progressives and it is a signal to them that the Dems haven't learned their lesson from the primaries. Perez is seen as another neoliberal because he's supported and been supported by the neoliberals.

They don't want the neoliberals compromising with progressives and meeting in the middle. They want to usurp every neoliberal politician with a progressive.

They want the social democracy that Reagan killed back.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#175848: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:27:21 PM

I've run into the type who yell "virtue signalling" at every single opportunity. Virtue signalling is an actual thing, but it's like the pharisees in the Bible. "Look at how righteous I am, praying really loudly out in public!" The people who try to call it out though, are apparently misanthropic enough that they can't even conceive that someone might want to do something nice just because.

The thing is, though, that calling out "virtue signalling" like that is like a bizarro world version of it. Great, we now know that you think helping a little old lady carry her groceries is a self-serving act. Good to know that you won't help anyone ever for any reason...unless you want something from them. Great to know there's no point in trusting you.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#175849: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:29:40 PM

If you think Tom Perez isn't a progressive, your definition of the word needs work.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#175850: Feb 25th 2017 at 2:30:25 PM

My preference was for Ellison to win, if only to seize control of Bernie's cult of personality and manipulate it towards reaping electoral dividends, but I have absolutely no problem with Perez, and this stupidity over who the DNC chair is in a contest between basically identical individuals is beyond moronic. Remember that last year we had DWS, the payday lenders' very own whore, as DNC chair. To think we're not in a better place now is madness.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

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