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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#175776: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:01:32 PM

Well I mean my main point was that America's been supportive of fascist regimes under Mussolini and Hitler

No it wasn't. Under this logic the USA is supportive of Communist China. Not toppling someone, and even doing business with someone is not the same as actively supporting or propping them up.

America has toppled democracies and propped up fascist regimes when they felt it was in their interest to do so.

This is a far more legitimate complaint, but it has nothing to do with FDR and everything to do with the post WWII era. It should also be noted that in some—not all, but some—of those cases, the American government legitimately a) did not understand the nature of the regime they were backing or b) believed that the alternatives were worse for everyone. This is not to suggest that this makes their actions excusable, simply that the reasons go beyond "America liking fascism".

Certainly there's an ugly strand of tolerance or even support for neofascist regimes among some American foreign policy makers, particularly the likes of Kissinger or those associated with the Nixon and Reagan administrations. Support for the likes of Pinochet, Videla, Rios Montt, etc, is a black mark on the American record and should land some of the people involved in jail in a perfect world. But the reasons for it go beyond some sort of intrinsic American appreciation of fascism.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#175777: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:14:31 PM

New post for new topic. Speaking of fascism, etc, elements of the alt-right continue their love affair with Pinochet.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#175778: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:15:25 PM

Yuck. I just got a advertisement to sign a petition to "tell California to stop putting illegals over citizens" ON THIS WEBSITE. THIS VERY TOPIC, IN FACT.

edited 24th Feb '17 9:15:58 PM by Bat178

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#175779: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:16:53 PM

Couple of things that stood out to me:

but we are a nation with a culture and a reason for being
I think we all know what that culture and that reason are, and it certainly doesn't include some of us.

High value added, manufacturing jobs, back to the United States of America
This touches on something I've been wondering about: Reindustrialization.

I don't know enough about China and other manufacturers to make this more than pure speculation, but is it possible, let alone feasible, that we could see an inversion of the last several decades, with manufacturing jobs moving to the US, and the countries they're moving from undergoing the effects of deindustrialization (negative and positive) like the US did?

edited 24th Feb '17 9:25:24 PM by Eschaton

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#175780: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:20:31 PM

Trump did show american true color, not in a "they a secretly evil" but that most of the time the population seen to like the old status quo of america as world cop by having superior firepower and the idea that unequal relationships is good standar because everyone does that and as long you win who the fuck cares?

the same happen here in my country(and yes, Im using that card again, deal with it) and so far we are still stuck with it, but the US is turning diferent by having a better resistence, so let see how that will play up.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#175781: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:22:39 PM

[up] That's still not the case.

The only true color of America is that people in the right moment at the right time will take actions to make sure nothing bad happen to them or even world, that's all.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#175782: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:30:49 PM

Could the US reindustrialize? Yes, it could. Is Trump's approach the right way to do it? Nope, definitely not.

As Steinmeier rightly pointed out: If the US wants to export, it has to build better products. It is really as easy as that. The US can't compete on the price, countries which shit wages and working conditions will always beat it out of the market, but it could compete on quality if it would invest in the right places - mainly education.

The only thing the concept with the bilateral trade deal will do is making the US even less competitive. While other countries trade freely with each other, the tariffs will make US products even less affordable than they already are...what, did you think that is a one way street? If the US slaps tariffs on foreign products, the other countries will retaliate.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#175783: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:40:31 PM

Representative Darrell Issa (R-CA) just said on Bill Maher that Sessions needs to recuse himself and bring in a special prosecutor in regards to the investigation into Trump's ties to Russia.

Yep.

edited 24th Feb '17 9:41:09 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175784: Feb 24th 2017 at 9:49:46 PM

They are their own worst enemies because hubris is going to bring them down. They have no idea what they are doing and cant possibly deliver on their promises. They only question is how much damage they can do until he leaves office.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#175785: Feb 24th 2017 at 10:08:48 PM

@Mad Skillz

Oh and all Bannon's talk about "overturning the global order"? That's alt-right code for "getting rid of the Jews". Which is not normally a part of neocon foreign policy.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#175786: Feb 24th 2017 at 10:10:44 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Of course, the US understond that playing world cop was a foolish errand and in art chose Obama because of that, in a way Trump is like the evil knockoff of obama(considering how obsess they are with him) they want to thing to go "back on tracks" but the world dosent move that way anymore.

[up][up]My biggest concern is how the political party will behive themselve in the future, the second term of obama administration an this election pretty much brought and end to the notion both party were formal rivals, they are now swear enemies is "My way or fuck off", I get is necesary NOW, but it worry me that it would be in the future.

edited 24th Feb '17 10:11:45 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175787: Feb 24th 2017 at 10:46:53 PM

[up]

they want to thing to go "back on tracks" but the world dosent move that way anymore.

Nationalism and Nostalgia. Always a toxic mix, no matter what time and place.

edited 24th Feb '17 10:47:23 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
IrishZombie Since: Dec, 2009
#175788: Feb 24th 2017 at 11:57:39 PM

[up]Can I at least be nostalgic for the times where Trump was merely a very rich idiot on TV?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175789: Feb 25th 2017 at 12:27:55 AM

[up] Seeing as how that doesn't involve nationalism, it's fine. I know I wish the only thing I still knew about him was that Berke Breathed once put Trump's brain in a dead cat to mock him in Bloom County.

edited 25th Feb '17 12:28:12 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#175790: Feb 25th 2017 at 12:40:02 AM

Apparently Muhammad Ali's ex-wife and son were detained at a Florida airport because of their Arabic-sounding names: http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/02/24/muhammad-ali-jr-detained-immigration-fla-airport/98376180/

Christ, now even full-blooded Americans are being detained because they happen to have the wrong name. They let the ex-wife go when she showed a picture of her with her ex-husband, but the son was interrogated for nearly 2 hours. You would think they would recognize a famous celebrity's ex-wife and son, especially considering that celebrity died last year and it was all over the news, but I guess customs goons don't watch very much news or boxing...

edited 25th Feb '17 12:50:39 AM by Bat178

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175791: Feb 25th 2017 at 12:54:17 AM

[up] I hope that lawsuit of theirs gets off the ground. That should not have happened. I'm not sure there's a word in the English language that properly conveys how disgusting that situation was.

edited 25th Feb '17 12:54:57 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#175792: Feb 25th 2017 at 1:38:31 AM

We knew that sort of thing was coming when CBP started doing the whole "papers, please" thing on domestic flights.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#175793: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:33:21 AM

So, today's the vote for DNC chair. And both Perez and Ellison are strong on labor and racial justice. They're both good candidates for a position that's important, but not super-important.

And yet, I'm terrified that this decision is going to screw us over, simply due to hurt feelings in the voters.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175794: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:43:21 AM

[up] We ARE Struggling Together is really frustrating...

If Perez wins:

"Aargh, those EBIL establishment corporate Dems! That's it! I'm gonna stay home and NEVER VOTE AGAIN!"

If Ellison wins:

"Those fucking Bernie-or-busters are gonna screw us over AGAIN!"

Meanwhile, most of the sane Democrat voters are wondering wtf is wrong with the above two groups.

edited 25th Feb '17 5:44:08 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
#175795: Feb 25th 2017 at 5:51:20 AM

You know, for all the many problems with Manchin... at least he's reliable (some of the time). And he's quiet, too.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#175796: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:16:02 AM

[up][up]Yeah, I mean, if it were on me I'd go with Ellison for unity, but neither of them seems bad.

[up]Speaking about him, Manchin invites primary challenge from Sanders supporters in call.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#175797: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:17:39 AM

This is potentially promising:

H.R. McMaster Breaks With Administration on Views of Islam.

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s newly appointed national security adviser has told his staff that Muslims who commit terrorist acts are perverting their religion, rejecting a key ideological view of other senior Trump advisers and signaling a potentially more moderate approach to the Islamic world.

The adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, told the staff of the National Security Council on Thursday, in his first “all hands” staff meeting, that the label “radical Islamic terrorism” was not helpful because terrorists are “un-Islamic,” according to people who were in the meeting.

edited 25th Feb '17 6:17:54 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#175798: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:24:45 AM

I wouldn't read to much into it. Trump and his administration have been contradicting each other and themselves in foreign policy for weeks.
At the recent NATO summit, Mattis first told the European ambassadors that NATO was unconditionally supported, and reiterated Trump's pay up or else talking point the next day. The Sec State is out of the loop on major decisions to boot, so the administration really can't have a coherent foreign policy, even if wasn't Trump at the top.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#175799: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:25:53 AM

True. I suppose I'm just desperate for any sign of sanity here.

Oh God! Natural light!
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#175800: Feb 25th 2017 at 6:28:18 AM

Oh, just saw this thing:

Montana is pissed at the GOP, so much they may loose the congress seat in the special election.

EDIT: and say what you will about Sanders, but this was a great comeback.

edited 25th Feb '17 6:38:04 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV

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