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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175026: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:05:21 PM

[up][up]I am not sure they can be covinced though.

The problem is that quite a few of them are young people who hate the entire system and would much rather burn it down and replace it with something better than work with what they already have.

If even Trump didn't covince them to vote....

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#175027: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:15:00 PM

Even "both sides are equally terrible, just burn it all down" is easier to convince that your side is at least less terrible than "GOP or nobody".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175028: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:17:10 PM

[up]See, that's the problem.

They don't believe that "Both sides are equally terrible" that's usually the point of view espoused by the Right-aligned.

The dissafected left alligned youth don't think both are terrible, they just think one side is the devil and the other is "just" incredibly inneficient and cowardly.

edited 19th Feb '17 1:17:36 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#175029: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:43:31 PM

@Nativejovian: Then we are doomed, because we cant form a large enough majority of voters to overcome our electoral college disadvantage without courting at least some of them.

Oppose Trump. Reach out to conservative voters.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#175030: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:44:50 PM

Young people tend not to vote against someone, they either don't vote or vote for someone. Younge people weren't inspired last year by the Dems so they didn't vote. With younge people it's not about Trump, it's about who the Dems put forward.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175031: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:53:49 PM

[up]Part of the wisdow of a good voter is learning when to do that though.

I don't begrudge them for their decisions, they have a right to not vote and to vote for whoever they want and it's not their fault we are in this mess.

But sometimes we have to compromise with our vision.

(Course, it doesn't helps that everyone has a different idea about what's important enough to do that)

edited 19th Feb '17 1:54:46 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#175032: Feb 19th 2017 at 1:55:46 PM

Eh? Abstainers most assuredly are to blame. Compared with 2012 there was a big dropoff in blue voters, while there was little change on the other side.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#175033: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:00:10 PM

[up]That could've been caused by voter suppression too.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175034: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:03:00 PM

Because the reasons that lead to people not voting or not taking political action are complex, for example my dad was gonna participate in an anti-worker's party protest once, but he and his wife fel taking their daughter to patins practice was more important.

That said, I agree wth you that more of them should have voted.

Also, mind a link? Not that I don't believe you it's just that last I checked every group was actually more represented than usual.

edited 19th Feb '17 2:14:39 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#175035: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:25:59 PM

Chris Wallace of Fox news tells Reince Priebus 'You don't get to tell [News Media] what to [report on]'.

That's 2 Fox Anchors going after Trump's Administration so far. Wonder how long until Fox News gets labeled as "Fake News" by Trumpeteers?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#175036: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:29:35 PM

Concerning conservatives and whether or not they're worth "courting" for votes...

If the next year or two of Trump and his cronies' various fuckups and atrocities (and there will be more incoming) don't push them to vote Democratic or at least just not vote at all...

Disgusted, but not surprised
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#175037: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:31:40 PM

Some of them are already doing that, judging by that annoying meme of all the "fake news outlets", who are invariably the established big news companies. Like, the BBC is not fake news. The BBC has some issues in the UK, but they're about as genuinely neutral as you can get outside the UK.

But yeah, Fox shows up on that image. Like, Fox, say what you will about it, generally doesn't flat make things up. They're more the "lying by omission" type, and they frame things with an absurd bias, but they usually don't make stuff up entirely, because they can get into huge trouble for that.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#175038: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:36:29 PM

[up][up][up]I wonder the same thing.

Also, Chris Wallace is rapidly becoming one of my new baes.

Do not obey in advance.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#175039: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:41:24 PM

[up][up] And yet here we are: "Trump admits false [terrorist attack] ‘last night in Sweden’ claim was something he heard ‘broadcast on Fox News’" (since I'm not directly linking his twitter account).

Though I suppose you're right that they themselves don't necessarily make things up out of whole-cloth. They let their viewers do it for them.

edited 19th Feb '17 2:42:23 PM by Eschaton

SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175040: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:42:25 PM

[up][up][up][up]Some will, others won't.

Some can be covinced in other ways, others can't at all.

It's like that with everything.

edited 19th Feb '17 2:42:40 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#175041: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:43:18 PM

[up][up] Seems like Trump just labeled them Fake news.tongue

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#175042: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:43:43 PM

Frankly, I'm sick of being told we can't have progressive government because we aren't tolerant enough of the other side's point of view. That's a two-way street, you know.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#175043: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:44:17 PM

I'm not sympathetic to Trump supporters who've found themselves at the end of anti-Trump vitriol. For a year and a half they supported an overgrown schoolyard bully and openly praised him for always speaking his mind without filters. The fact that they can support dishing that but can't take it just shows them for the pathetic whiny hypocrites they are.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#175044: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:46:13 PM

So the claim about Sweden was probably based on something...but the something that it was based on was just as fake. I've actually noticed this, but there's this persistent claim in the right wing sphere that Sweden is going through an absurd rape epidemic right now. They aren't. Sweden just has a really wide official definition of rape and their police are ordered to take every claim seriously. Like, threatening to sexually assault someone counts.

So it looks like the rate is really high, but it's more that it's way more reported, and Sweden apparently has way less people willing to sweep it under the rug.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#175045: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:48:45 PM

Now see my impression was that the tall tale was heavily strawmanned from an actual deed ... of anti-immigrant violence.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#175046: Feb 19th 2017 at 2:51:58 PM

[up][up][up]The people mentioned in the article haven't applauded him for that from what I can tell though. They voted for him for disparate reasons, doesn't mean they think he is flawless.

We can't just assume everyone is like one particular subset of the worst of the people that oppose us. That makes it difficult later to make a good strategy to fight against their influence.

edited 19th Feb '17 2:53:55 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#175047: Feb 19th 2017 at 3:00:52 PM

[up][up]Same thing with immigrant violence statistics in the Nordics.

Far right groups and websites have been claiming the reason why we don't hear so often about the violence and rape committed by immigrants is because the progressive institutions are suppressing the data and ordering the police and administrative institutions to under report the events.

They certainly follow red pill image macros or threads explaining why Sweden is supposedly the rape capital of Europe or bullshit out of context claims of police officers stop investigating immigrants over fear of being called racist or the same old and tried only 0.01% of the population but 99.99% the prison population.

Inter arma enim silent leges
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#175048: Feb 19th 2017 at 3:05:19 PM

Apparently, there was a terrorist attack on Sweden... by neo-nazis, who attacked a refugee camp.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#175049: Feb 19th 2017 at 3:06:46 PM

What's doubly amazing about that is that the Nordic domestic intelligence agencies publish their own intelligence reports for public consumption every year, and every year they've said the same thing: Violent crime is on the decline, immigrants are, on the whole, responsible for less economic (but slightly, and I mean slightly) more violent crime (which is still overall declining and has been for several years).

And, shocker of all shockers, one of the biggest radicalization vectors is experiencing personal and institutionalized racism.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#175050: Feb 19th 2017 at 3:06:47 PM

I was never really under the impression that all trump voters, all republicans, or really any big enough group is monolithic.

Im not sure to what extent reaching out to "conservatives" is worthwhile, because a lot of them are actually reactionaries. You can compromise a little but only do much, because otherwise the victory becomes pyrrhic.


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