Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
See, that's the problem.
They don't believe that "Both sides are equally terrible" that's usually the point of view espoused by the Right-aligned.
The dissafected left alligned youth don't think both are terrible, they just think one side is the devil and the other is "just" incredibly inneficient and cowardly.
edited 19th Feb '17 1:17:36 PM by SaintDeltora
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!Young people tend not to vote against someone, they either don't vote or vote for someone. Younge people weren't inspired last year by the Dems so they didn't vote. With younge people it's not about Trump, it's about who the Dems put forward.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Part of the wisdow of a good voter is learning when to do that though.
I don't begrudge them for their decisions, they have a right to not vote and to vote for whoever they want and it's not their fault we are in this mess.
But sometimes we have to compromise with our vision.
(Course, it doesn't helps that everyone has a different idea about what's important enough to do that)
edited 19th Feb '17 1:54:46 PM by SaintDeltora
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!Because the reasons that lead to people not voting or not taking political action are complex, for example my dad was gonna participate in an anti-worker's party protest once, but he and his wife fel taking their daughter to patins practice was more important.
That said, I agree wth you that more of them should have voted.
Also, mind a link? Not that I don't believe you it's just that last I checked every group was actually more represented than usual.
edited 19th Feb '17 2:14:39 PM by SaintDeltora
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!That's 2 Fox Anchors going after Trump's Administration so far. Wonder how long until Fox News gets labeled as "Fake News" by Trumpeteers?
Some of them are already doing that, judging by that annoying meme of all the "fake news outlets", who are invariably the established big news companies. Like, the BBC is not fake news. The BBC has some issues in the UK, but they're about as genuinely neutral as you can get outside the UK.
But yeah, Fox shows up on that image. Like, Fox, say what you will about it, generally doesn't flat make things up. They're more the "lying by omission" type, and they frame things with an absurd bias, but they usually don't make stuff up entirely, because they can get into huge trouble for that.
![]()
And yet here we are: "Trump admits false [terrorist attack] ‘last night in Sweden’ claim was something he heard ‘broadcast on Fox News’"
(since I'm not directly linking his twitter account).
Though I suppose you're right that they themselves don't necessarily make things up out of whole-cloth. They let their viewers do it for them.
edited 19th Feb '17 2:42:23 PM by Eschaton
Frankly, I'm sick of being told we can't have progressive government because we aren't tolerant enough of the other side's point of view. That's a two-way street, you know.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm not sympathetic to Trump supporters who've found themselves at the end of anti-Trump vitriol. For a year and a half they supported an overgrown schoolyard bully and openly praised him for always speaking his mind without filters. The fact that they can support dishing that but can't take it just shows them for the pathetic whiny hypocrites they are.
So the claim about Sweden was probably based on something
...but the something that it was based on was just as fake. I've actually noticed this, but there's this persistent claim in the right wing sphere that Sweden is going through an absurd rape epidemic right now. They aren't. Sweden just has a really wide official definition of rape and their police are ordered to take every claim seriously. Like, threatening to sexually assault someone counts.
So it looks like the rate is really high, but it's more that it's way more reported, and Sweden apparently has way less people willing to sweep it under the rug.
![]()
![]()
The people mentioned in the article haven't applauded him for that from what I can tell though. They voted for him for disparate reasons, doesn't mean they think he is flawless.
We can't just assume everyone is like one particular subset of the worst of the people that oppose us. That makes it difficult later to make a good strategy to fight against their influence.
edited 19th Feb '17 2:53:55 PM by SaintDeltora
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!![]()
Same thing with immigrant violence statistics in the Nordics.
Far right groups and websites have been claiming the reason why we don't hear so often about the violence and rape committed by immigrants is because the progressive institutions are suppressing the data and ordering the police and administrative institutions to under report the events.
They certainly follow red pill image macros or threads explaining why Sweden is supposedly the rape capital of Europe or bullshit out of context claims of police officers stop investigating immigrants over fear of being called racist or the same old and tried only 0.01% of the population but 99.99% the prison population.
Inter arma enim silent legesApparently, there was a terrorist attack on Sweden... by neo-nazis, who attacked a refugee camp
.
What's doubly amazing about that is that the Nordic domestic intelligence agencies publish their own intelligence reports for public consumption every year, and every year they've said the same thing: Violent crime is on the decline, immigrants are, on the whole, responsible for less economic (but slightly, and I mean slightly) more violent crime (which is still overall declining and has been for several years).
And, shocker of all shockers, one of the biggest radicalization vectors is experiencing personal and institutionalized racism.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.I was never really under the impression that all trump voters, all republicans, or really any big enough group is monolithic.
Im not sure to what extent reaching out to "conservatives" is worthwhile, because a lot of them are actually reactionaries. You can compromise a little but only do much, because otherwise the victory becomes pyrrhic.

The problem is that quite a few of them are young people who hate the entire system and would much rather burn it down and replace it with something better than work with what they already have.
If even Trump didn't covince them to vote....
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!