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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#174951: Feb 18th 2017 at 12:54:11 PM

And if memory serves, Mar-a-Lago is also a security problem and a money pit in its new role.
Yup. It's also killing downtown Palm Beach, as they have to shut down a major road and a local airport while Trump is in town, it's literally putting people out of business. NPR did a story about it. This would be less of a problem if he hadn't gone there every weekend of his Presidency so far.

Also on the security front: Two F-15s were scrambled last night to intercept an “unresponsive general aviation aircraft” (read: some poor bastard in a Cessna). I guarantee you that the cost of launching two F-15s is more than the value of the entire aircraft they were sent to intercept.

edited 18th Feb '17 1:27:26 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#174952: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:05:49 PM

Cessna are nice.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#174953: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:06:35 PM

I guarantee you that the cause of launched two There is something off with the grammar...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#174954: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:08:11 PM

Maybe autocorrect from "cost of launching two"?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#174955: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:13:26 PM

On the one hand, f*ck Trump.

On the other hand, the last thing we need is to become He Who Fights Monsters.

Again, the problem is messaging. If Trump is as bad as Democrats say he is, then acquiescing to anything he does becomes hypocritical. The image of professional, "responsible" politicians cooperating on any level with the antithesis of everything they supposedly stand for is anathema to the voters on the left that are becoming active in politics, who see politicians being beaten at their own game. Activists are saying that we need to fight at every opportunity. Keith Ellison goes into this a little bit in his interview with Trevor Noah (around 3 minutes in).

The Democrats are in a dangerous place. There very well may be a general anti-Trump wave that more moderate figures will be able to ride to success, but I worry they won't be able to solidify their position afterward by virtue of "see, it all worked out," and leave themselves extremely fragile. But otherwise, becoming He Who Fights Monsters - to some extent - might be one of the only options left.

However, personally and honestly, I will not fault Democrats for adopting certain Tea Party tactics, because obviously, they work.

edited 18th Feb '17 1:20:21 PM by Eschaton

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#174956: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:16:16 PM

If those idiots do manage to hijack the Democratic party, with all their protectionist and isolationist BS....

Man, Putin can't lose, can he?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#174957: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:48:59 PM

Putin can't lose 'cause he already won. That game's over. It's a new game now and we have to figure out how to play it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#174958: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:51:55 PM

I'd argue against the idea that Tea Party tactics worked. I'd argue that they produced a result that's bad for everyone.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#174959: Feb 18th 2017 at 1:59:37 PM

They garnered immediate short-term success with horrific long-term consequences. Problem is, everybody's short-sighted.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#174960: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:01:17 PM

I'd say there's a difference between the tactics (which put them in power) and the policies (which they enacted once in power). Or at least I'd like to think that.

If that kind of swell can only be accomplished by crafting a platform around unrepentant greed and virulent anti-intellectualism, then yes, I'd rather not see that happen.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#174961: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:06:50 PM

"The White House might want to consider having the president bring the excitement of his position to other parts of the country where they would love to see and interact with the president and where he would be also very welcome," she says.
There has never been a more polite way to say GTFO.

And the indivisible guide is based upon using tea party tactics for good reason I think.
If the tea party made the country worse, they still managed to see the GOP rewarded for regressive ideology and 8 years of obstructing the government coming up after 8 years of lying and regressive governance that landed us in war and brought us fixtures like Roberts.
So, yeah, I'm gonna say they worked.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#174962: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:08:54 PM

[up][up] Those who support extremist tactics to achieve their goals tend also to support extremist goals. 'Cause they're extremists.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#174963: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:10:12 PM

We might need a genuine extremist wing. After all, because we are so far right then any sort of left-wing policies are labelled "extremist" then maybe it is time we had politicians who would be considered left wing in Scandinavia or Europe. If only to not ever have to put up with decades of Christian Fundamentalist and Racist bullshit.

Edit: Isn't it odd how the party that screamed "COMMUNIST!" for 60 years is now made up of people who love Putin's Soviet Union tribute band?

edited 18th Feb '17 2:11:41 PM by Wildcard

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#174964: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:16:04 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2017/02/18/devos-criticized-teachers-at-d-c-school-she-visited-and-they-are-not-having-it/?utm_term=.8e6e02491eb5

DeVos criticized teachers at D.C. school she visited — and they are not having it

An excerpt:

Newly minted Education Secretary Betsy DeVos had a hard time getting inside the District’s Jefferson Middle School Academy last week when protesters briefly blocked her from entering. But at the end of her visit — her first to a public school since taking office — she stood on Jefferson’s front steps and pronounced it “awesome.”

A few days later, she seemed less enamored. The teachers at Jefferson were sincere, genuine and dedicated, she said, they seemed to be in “receive mode.”

“They’re waiting to be told what they have to do, and that’s not going to bring success to an individual child,” DeVos told a columnist for the conservative online publication Townhall. “You have to have teachers who are empowered to facilitate great teaching.”

DeVos, who has no professional experience in public education, is an avowed proponent of voucher schools, charter schools, online schools and other alternatives to traditional public schools. Teachers across the country have been galled by what they see as her lack of faith in — and understanding of — the public schools that educate nearly nine in 10 of the nation’s children.

Jefferson educators found her comments about their work hard to take: On Friday evening, the school responded to DeVos via its Twitter account, taking exception to the education secretary’s characterization of Jefferson teachers.

“We’re about to take her to school,” the first of 11 rapid-fire tweets said.

edited 18th Feb '17 2:17:06 PM by sgamer82

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#174965: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:21:55 PM

Using Tea Party tactics, I guess would be OK. My problem is with trying to primary the blue dogs (Manchin, or Heitkamp for example), since that's only throwing away seats to the republicans.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#174966: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:35:26 PM

Considering how hostile everyone was to the notion of even trying to peel Republicans away from Trump with concessions (and until at least 2018, they hold literally all of the cards), I feel like the disdain for the "Justice Democrats" and the like is more than a little hypocritical. I certainly don't feel like that's the best approach, but I'm also fairly skeptical of the democrat's ability to make major gains in 2018 because of the structural factors arrayed against them.

edited 18th Feb '17 2:36:22 PM by CaptainCapsase

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#174967: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:35:42 PM

Of course, the Dems could make their own way: Did Betsy DeVos Make You Want To Run For School Board?

Early one morning, the week before Betsy De Vos' confirmation as education secretary, 23-year-old Allison Kruk was dropping her boyfriend off at the Philadelphia airport when she decided to swing by the office of her U.S. senator and give him a piece of her mind.
Kruk was a Hillary Clinton supporter, and the nomination of De Vos "just felt like a low blow," she says. "I had been calling and emailing and writing letters about how I thought she was incredibly incompetent, regardless of your position on school choice."
Kruk spent 2 1/2 hours in the office of Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., before she was finally escorted out by security, but not without an official audience scheduled on the Monday before the vote.
Over the weekend, she collected 11,000 signatures on a petition from educators all over the state, plus letters from parents and teachers, all of which she hand-delivered.
When Toomey nevertheless cast his vote for De Vos, Kruk's reaction was immediate: She decided to run for school board.

"Since Betsy De Vos' confirmation, we've had a flood of people come and say specifically, 'I want to run for school board to protect the schools in my hometown,' " says Amanda Litman, co-founder of Run for Something, a newly launched progressive political action committee dedicated to drafting Millennials for down-ballot races from state legislatures on down. Run for Something offers advice, introductions and, for some candidates, help with fundraising.
NPR Ed spoke with four young first-time school board candidates from around the country.
All say they were influenced by the national energy around politics and education, but each says there was a more traditional motivation: to help kids in their communities.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#174968: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:50:24 PM

Im a little late to this but i'm getting tired of mccain' posturing if he isnt going to put his money where his mouth is.

If you're afraid your reactionary party will forsake you and you feel it's too late, then the least you can do is not feed us all a bunch of lip sercice.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#174969: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:51:36 PM

Yeah, we should defer to blue dogs because that strategy has worked so well for a generation. It's time to treat politics in this country for what it is: a non-violent war for power. The conservatives have been taking this idea seriously since the 1980's. We should too.

The goal of progressives isn't to help Democrats win, it's to pass progressive laws and policies. If a democrat helps achieve progressive goals, then we can support him (the same applies, btw, to a Republican). If not, they get tossed out with the rest.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#174970: Feb 18th 2017 at 2:58:24 PM

Paul Ryan's Tax Reform Plan faltering because of Border Adjustment Tax. Too many Republicans are against it. So we can be thankful that there will not be a Tariff anytime soon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#174971: Feb 18th 2017 at 3:04:01 PM

[up][up] The issue is that people don't always line up so neatly on all the issues. A person can support gun control, gay rights, and police reforms, while also thinking that anyone who gets an abortion needs to be cuffed with a murder charge. Another might support abortion and gay rights, but also be entirely okay with cops shooting black kids in the streets 'cause they think black people do all the crime.

edited 18th Feb '17 3:04:19 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#174972: Feb 18th 2017 at 3:04:41 PM

[up][up] A Border Adjusted Tax isn't the same thing as a tariff; it's pretty much standard in the EU and much of the rest of the world. The devil is in the details of course, but assuming the idea was in line with what's normal elsewhere in the world (a big if all things considered), that would hardly be the worse way of raising revenue to offset whatever tax cuts they have in mind.

edited 18th Feb '17 3:08:56 PM by CaptainCapsase

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#174973: Feb 18th 2017 at 3:06:29 PM

[up][up]True, but Republicans almost always fall within the party line no matter which old money white man is in charge. It's like that lady who said "I voted for Trump not against woman's reproductive health" there comes a point where it becomes rightfully so "Take some personal responsibility if you were dumb enough to vote against your own interests".

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#174974: Feb 18th 2017 at 3:32:03 PM

@Capsase: I just don't understand what can the democrats afford to concede on without throwing their base or principles under the bus, if they do find something then yes, I think they should try to compromise, at least out of pragmatism, cause their base seems to want compromise. And it's not that I don't think the democrats should move to the left (they should, if there's a coherent argument and/or good reasons for doing so), I simply don't trust TYT and certain elements (and I want to make it clear that I don't want to generalize about that side of the party, I think it's a Vocal Minority capable of influencing some of the majority of that part of the party) of the "berniecrats" to be interested in cooperation, because from where I see it (and, again, I could be wrong here), they're more interested in labeling dems as "progressive" or "(neo-)liberal" based simply on who they backed in the primaries (or on one visible thing they may have done, even if the rest of their career would show them not to fit that label, see Booker and Gabbard).

@De Marquis: that's not what I meant, what I was saying is that in the current political climate the Democratic party is overall the people with progressive policies, so the current progressives (see my answer to Capsase for how narrow the definition I'm using here is) seems (to me) to be approaching this issue as "my way or the highway". While I think that if we have to let the blue dogs just vote with the republicans once or twice now, so they can keep their seats and hopefully when the Dems retake the senate they can count on those votes instead of facing an automatic "no" or filibuster from a Republican.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#174975: Feb 18th 2017 at 3:56:17 PM

I don't know how much you can rely on that survey. "Cooperate and work with" is a feelgood phrase that tends to get yeses. Then there's the issue that the survey is a majority of Americans, not necessarily the base.
Furthermore, people lie on surveys. With compromise specifically, that's not really compatible with what polls have also said about how partisans view each other, as proven when not compromising did not punish the GOP at all.
On the Dem side, not a week ago there were reports that the Dem base wanted its representatives to fight everything (albeit, Sessions and De Vos were at the top of the agenda then).

edited 18th Feb '17 4:03:13 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives

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