Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
On the other hand, the last thing we need is to become He Who Fights Monsters.
The Democrats are in a dangerous place. There very well may be a general anti-Trump wave that more moderate figures will be able to ride to success, but I worry they won't be able to solidify their position afterward by virtue of "see, it all worked out," and leave themselves extremely fragile. But otherwise, becoming He Who Fights Monsters - to some extent - might be one of the only options left.
However, personally and honestly, I will not fault Democrats for adopting certain Tea Party tactics, because obviously, they work.
edited 18th Feb '17 1:20:21 PM by Eschaton
Putin can't lose 'cause he already won. That game's over. It's a new game now and we have to figure out how to play it.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.They garnered immediate short-term success with horrific long-term consequences. Problem is, everybody's short-sighted.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I'd say there's a difference between the tactics (which put them in power) and the policies (which they enacted once in power). Or at least I'd like to think that.
If that kind of swell can only be accomplished by crafting a platform around unrepentant greed and virulent anti-intellectualism, then yes, I'd rather not see that happen.
And the indivisible guide is based upon using tea party tactics for good reason I think.
If the tea party made the country worse, they still managed to see the GOP rewarded for regressive ideology and 8 years of obstructing the government coming up after 8 years of lying and regressive governance that landed us in war and brought us fixtures like Roberts.
So, yeah, I'm gonna say they worked. Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
![]()
Those who support extremist tactics to achieve their goals tend also to support extremist goals. 'Cause they're extremists.
We might need a genuine extremist wing. After all, because we are so far right then any sort of left-wing policies are labelled "extremist" then maybe it is time we had politicians who would be considered left wing in Scandinavia or Europe. If only to not ever have to put up with decades of Christian Fundamentalist and Racist bullshit.
Edit: Isn't it odd how the party that screamed "COMMUNIST!" for 60 years is now made up of people who love Putin's Soviet Union tribute band?
edited 18th Feb '17 2:11:41 PM by Wildcard
DeVos criticized teachers at D.C. school she visited — and they are not having it
An excerpt:
A few days later, she seemed less enamored. The teachers at Jefferson were sincere, genuine and dedicated, she said, they seemed to be in “receive mode.”
“They’re waiting to be told what they have to do, and that’s not going to bring success to an individual child,” DeVos told a columnist for the conservative online publication Townhall. “You have to have teachers who are empowered to facilitate great teaching.”
DeVos, who has no professional experience in public education, is an avowed proponent of voucher schools, charter schools, online schools and other alternatives to traditional public schools. Teachers across the country have been galled by what they see as her lack of faith in — and understanding of — the public schools that educate nearly nine in 10 of the nation’s children.
Jefferson educators found her comments about their work hard to take: On Friday evening, the school responded to DeVos via its Twitter account, taking exception to the education secretary’s characterization of Jefferson teachers.
“We’re about to take her to school,” the first of 11 rapid-fire tweets said.
edited 18th Feb '17 2:17:06 PM by sgamer82
Considering how hostile everyone was to the notion of even trying to peel Republicans away from Trump with concessions (and until at least 2018, they hold literally all of the cards), I feel like the disdain for the "Justice Democrats" and the like is more than a little hypocritical. I certainly don't feel like that's the best approach, but I'm also fairly skeptical of the democrat's ability to make major gains in 2018 because of the structural factors arrayed against them.
edited 18th Feb '17 2:36:22 PM by CaptainCapsase
Of course, the Dems could make their own way: Did Betsy DeVos Make You Want To Run For School Board?
Kruk was a Hillary Clinton supporter, and the nomination of De Vos "just felt like a low blow," she says. "I had been calling and emailing and writing letters about how I thought she was incredibly incompetent, regardless of your position on school choice."
Kruk spent 2 1/2 hours in the office of Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., before she was finally escorted out by security, but not without an official audience scheduled on the Monday before the vote.
Over the weekend, she collected 11,000 signatures on a petition from educators all over the state, plus letters from parents and teachers, all of which she hand-delivered.
When Toomey nevertheless cast his vote for De Vos, Kruk's reaction was immediate: She decided to run for school board.
"Since Betsy De Vos' confirmation, we've had a flood of people come and say specifically, 'I want to run for school board to protect the schools in my hometown,' " says Amanda Litman, co-founder of Run for Something, a newly launched progressive political action committee dedicated to drafting Millennials for down-ballot races from state legislatures on down. Run for Something offers advice, introductions and, for some candidates, help with fundraising.
NPR Ed spoke with four young first-time school board candidates from around the country.
All say they were influenced by the national energy around politics and education, but each says there was a more traditional motivation: to help kids in their communities.
Yeah, we should defer to blue dogs because that strategy has worked so well for a generation. It's time to treat politics in this country for what it is: a non-violent war for power. The conservatives have been taking this idea seriously since the 1980's. We should too.
The goal of progressives isn't to help Democrats win, it's to pass progressive laws and policies. If a democrat helps achieve progressive goals, then we can support him (the same applies, btw, to a Republican). If not, they get tossed out with the rest.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Paul Ryan's Tax Reform Plan faltering because of Border Adjustment Tax
. Too many Republicans are against it. So we can be thankful that there will not be a Tariff anytime soon.
![]()
The issue is that people don't always line up so neatly on all the issues. A person can support gun control, gay rights, and police reforms, while also thinking that anyone who gets an abortion needs to be cuffed with a murder charge. Another might support abortion and gay rights, but also be entirely okay with cops shooting black kids in the streets 'cause they think black people do all the crime.
edited 18th Feb '17 3:04:19 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
A Border Adjusted Tax isn't the same thing as a tariff; it's pretty much standard in the EU and much of the rest of the world. The devil is in the details of course, but assuming the idea was in line with what's normal elsewhere in the world (a big if all things considered), that would hardly be the worse way of raising revenue to offset whatever tax cuts they have in mind.
edited 18th Feb '17 3:08:56 PM by CaptainCapsase
![]()
True, but Republicans almost always fall within the party line no matter which old money white man is in charge. It's like that lady who said "I voted for Trump not against woman's reproductive health" there comes a point where it becomes rightfully so "Take some personal responsibility if you were dumb enough to vote against your own interests".
@Capsase: I just don't understand what can the democrats afford to concede on without throwing their base or principles under the bus, if they do find something then yes, I think they should try to compromise, at least out of pragmatism, cause their base seems to want compromise
. And it's not that I don't think the democrats should move to the left (they should, if there's a coherent argument and/or good reasons for doing so), I simply don't trust TYT and certain elements (and I want to make it clear that I don't want to generalize about that side of the party, I think it's a Vocal Minority capable of influencing some of the majority of that part of the party) of the "berniecrats" to be interested in cooperation, because from where I see it (and, again, I could be wrong here), they're more interested in labeling dems as "progressive" or "(neo-)liberal" based simply on who they backed in the primaries (or on one visible thing they may have done, even if the rest of their career would show them not to fit that label, see Booker and Gabbard).
@De Marquis: that's not what I meant, what I was saying is that in the current political climate the Democratic party is overall the people with progressive policies, so the current progressives (see my answer to Capsase for how narrow the definition I'm using here is) seems (to me) to be approaching this issue as "my way or the highway". While I think that if we have to let the blue dogs just vote with the republicans once or twice now, so they can keep their seats and hopefully when the Dems retake the senate they can count on those votes instead of facing an automatic "no" or filibuster from a Republican.
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVI don't know how much you can rely on that survey. "Cooperate and work with" is a feelgood phrase that tends to get yeses. Then there's the issue that the survey is a majority of Americans, not necessarily the base.
Furthermore, people lie on surveys. With compromise specifically, that's not really compatible with what polls have also said about how partisans view each other, as proven when not compromising did not punish the GOP at all.
On the Dem side, not a week ago there were reports that the Dem base wanted its representatives to fight everything (albeit, Sessions and De Vos were at the top of the agenda then).
edited 18th Feb '17 4:03:13 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives

Also on the security front: Two F-15s were scrambled last night
to intercept an “unresponsive general aviation aircraft” (read: some poor bastard in a Cessna). I guarantee you that the cost of launching two F-15s is more than the value of the entire aircraft they were sent to intercept.
edited 18th Feb '17 1:27:26 PM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.