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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yes. They were made aware of it and yet they did nothing to help, solely because it was seen as a "gay disease". Once straight people and children began to get it, they finally gave a damn. Thousands of people died while nobody cared, and Reagan could have helped. Instead, it took us until the 2000s to finally make an impact against it.
Can we still not use the word that's meant to represent someone deciding to go out and straight up murder everyone of a specific population group?
I don't mean to say what Reagan did was not all sorts of shit, but its not genocide unless he started to actively infect every LBGT person in the US with it and I think this sort of Term Creep just ends up mushing everything down.
"You can reply to this Message!"How much more can we blame Regan for that though than we do for Washington and several of his successors being slave owners? Just from a dis passionate view, even adknowledging it was a bad thing, was it just a thing that was a product of his time? Would anyone else in his position at the time have done better? (I'd like to think that if the same thing happened today there would be much more pushback.)
edited 17th Feb '17 2:09:05 PM by Elle
Reagan's too high on that list for a host of reasons. He played a dangerous gamble during the Cold War, look up what nearly happened during Able Archer 83.
Most of civil society, around the world, ignored the HIV crisis for years. He played a major role, but I doubt that many others (even someone like Carter) would have done any better. However, he was in power in real life, so he takes the blame (along with a host of other major players at the time).
edited 17th Feb '17 2:09:46 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.Speaking of HIV and genocide, which President was it that had a bunch of African-Americans infected without their knowledge to study the effects?
edited 17th Feb '17 2:09:43 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Except that's exactly what it was. He knew that LGBT people were getting sick, and he did nothing because of who was dying. When you have the ability to save someone, but choose to let them die, you are at fault for their death. At the very least, he was a willing accomplice in the deaths of thousands of LGBT people.
That starts us down a very complex and thorny path about hindsight applying to moral and ethical choices. There's a philosophical debate to be had (one that's been going on for a long time), but not in this topic.
We consider the neglect surrounding the HIV epidemic to be an atrocity, but it definitely wasn't an intentional act of murder (in most cases).
edited 17th Feb '17 2:09:48 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
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Wasn't that syphilis?
I believe you are thinking about this case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
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edited 17th Feb '17 2:12:04 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
x4 Are you thinking of the Tuskegee experiments
? That was syphilis, not HIV, and it went on for 40 years, from 1932 to 1972. (Ethics in medical experiments are relatively recent developments.)
edited 17th Feb '17 2:12:51 PM by Elle
Reagan also holds the distinguished honor of once telling a joke so bad it nearly ended the world.
The Cold War nearly went hot after audio from a sound check was made public, in which Reagan joked, "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
EDIT: Yes, I was thinking of Tuskegee.
edited 17th Feb '17 2:11:37 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Kennedy's rated so high because Jackie O and Ted Kennedy spent forty-five years creating a cult of personality around him. The guy himself was okayish, just not the hero he's portrayed as. Also, Americans like to see themselves in him because he was young, stylish, and inspiring, but the actual record of his presidency, because it was never completely realized, factors very little in his characterization.
As far as Kennedys go, as a Bay Stater, I prefer Ted, as a progressive, I prefer Bobby.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."The only things I really know about JFK are that he had a thing with Marilyn Monroe and, depending on who you ask, he was either assassinated by a magic bullet or a Time Lord.
I've heard more conspiracy theories on JFK than I've heard actual facts about his Presidency.
That would be incredibly stupid. Like, worse than Trump stupid. As a general rule, when somebody is pointing a gun at you, it is not considered good form to surprise them.
edited 17th Feb '17 2:21:37 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.It did cause the Russian military to go to red alert for a little while, so I'm pretty sure he did eventually say "Oh jeez, that was a bad idea."
I'm also not surprised that people like Einsenhower and Jackson have been taken down a few pegs. Jackson especially; the man was basically Early 1800s Trump, but from a commoner background instead of from money. Only this time Trump can't just disregard a Supreme Court ruling out of racism. He can try, but it'll likely mean the end of his presidency.
Eisenhower seems to have improved in the public consciousness; likely a result of being the last 'real' Republican in the same strain as Lincoln. After him, Goldwater's loss caused the inversion of the GOP seen today, first as a means to an end by Nixon, then into the hands of idealogues. In that respect, Eisenhower was perhaps The Last of His Kind, and whatever his faults left the country bereft of stable political parties.
IIRC the public (and Russia) didn't hear that joke for a while and it didn't cause any change in DEFCON levels. It was in poor taste but didn't threaten the world.
Leviticus 19:34![]()
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Eisenhower? He's gone up, actually. You sure you aren't thinking of Wilson?
edited 17th Feb '17 3:00:10 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!House Committee launches Bi-Partisan Investigation over whether Flynn received improper payments from Russia
. Specifically for his Russian Television appearances.
This might actually get Flynn into jail. Either this, or nothing will (until at least 2018).
My issues with Reagan and the Cold War aren't his quip, its his overall policy of provoking the Soviets. We got very close to WW3 during Able Archer 83, and that's only the biggest incident. Now, Moscow also had its own issues, this is true. But Reagan gambled the continuity of human civilization on a geopolitical bet, and while he won that wasn't a sure thing.
edited 17th Feb '17 3:47:02 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

It's an interesting point on the benchmark. Those ranked below Harrison I presume might have left the country in better shape if they had given one speech and then died in bed.
edited 17th Feb '17 2:00:20 PM by Elle