Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Conspiracy Theory Theory: Why are so many people convinced that Donald Trump has a master plan? {Slate}
An article that puts forth the idea that, yes, Trump is actually that incompetent, he is not intentionally trying to bring down democracy. I don't want to underestimate the guy, but you know, the article has a point that we shouldn't overestimate them either.
At this point, that is honestly my thinking: That Trump is just so incompetent. The minute I learned he didn't even write the EO that banned people from 7 Nations immigrating to this country was the minute I realized he's clueless about US Politics.
Now Steve Bannon, he's the real danger to this nation...
edited 10th Feb '17 1:27:51 PM by DingoWalley1
The problem with Trump is not that he's some evil mastermind. That would actually be a more manageable issue than the truth. The truth is that he's an incompetent, know-nothing, self-aggrandizing narcissist who surrounds himself with people whom he personally likes rather than people that are competent at their jobs.
Those people are the ones with vicious, destructive political and personal agendas who will tear the nation down.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Ifwanderer: Reading about that movement feels like looking into an abyss with no end. What really creeps me out is how nonchalant most of the people in it are about their goals and what they believe in. The main guy the article talks about defends slavery like it's no big deal and asks "what was really so bad about the nazis?" with complete sincerity, following it up with a nihilistic justification about how the people fighting against them were not really any different from them. It's like I'm looking at the creepiest Straw Nihilist ever, except he's real.
Which I think shows that being superficially "pleasant" and "polite" really doesn't have much to do with how moral you are or is any indication that you should be taken seriously, a fact which seems to elude most people who think that all reactionaries are going to be virulent and openly hateful, and not merely casual about it as many of them are.
In "I told you so" news: California Farmers Backed Trump, but Now Fear Losing Field Workers
.
What the fuck did they think would happen?
/sigh
Also, great page topper.
edited 10th Feb '17 1:38:30 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"They were presumably thinking that Trump would fix the water issues. Which - cynically - he's probably in a better position in than many other people, considering that environmental protection and in lesser measure big cities suck up much of it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanYou know that guy on the internet who can't f*cking shut up about his credentials as though it automatically entitles him to win the discussion? You know that guy. We all know that guy.
"Well, maybe if you had a PHD in psychiatry like I do, you would understand why my version of the character is correct." "Excuse me, but my doctorate disagrees with your take on that movie." "You think what about economics? How old are you?"
That's Trump. That's basically the entire point of his Presidency. He thought that being President entitles him to win every conversation. He sees it as the ultimate "Congratulations, you win at life!" achievement.
And now he's pissed off because he didn't understand that no, in fact, being the President is NOT the greatest argument-finisher of all time.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Would be even do as suggested above and remove the green card part? An article posted earlier said when it was brought to his attention he just gave me authority to one of his people on the matter rather than change the order.
From section 2 of http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/3-key-trump-mistakes-that-led-to-travel-ban-court-defeat-234884
"The McGahn fix"
Once the concern about green-card holders was identified, Trump could have simply signed a half-page tweak to his executive order, making crystal clear that U.S. permanent residents were exempt from the order. But he didn't do that, apparently because he or his aides did not want to admit any flaws in the drafting or vetting process. A formal change to the order would have amounted to a concession of such imperfections.
Instead, Trump and his advisers settled on having his official lawyer — White House Counsel Don Mc Gahn — sign a memorandum purporting to offer "authoritative guidance" that the order did not apply to green-card holders. The memo did not say that Trump instructed Mc Gahn to tweak the order or even that the president approved the new "guidance."
"The White House counsel speaks for the president in this context," Justice Department lawyer August Flentje insisted during Tuesday's oral arguments in response to skeptical questions from the only Republican appointee on the three-judge panel, Richard Clifton.
Despite the claims by Mc Gahn and Flentje that the counsel's memo was conclusive, the three judges nearly ridiculed that position.
10_donald_trump_14_gty_1160.jpg WHITE HOUSE Appeals court panel rules unanimously against Trump travel ban By JOSH GERSTEIN "At this point, however, we cannot rely upon the Government’s contention that the Executive Order no longer applies to lawful permanent residents. The Government has offered no authority establishing that the White House counsel is empowered to issue an amended order superseding the Executive Order signed by the President," the judges wrote, adding curtly: "That proposition seems unlikely."
And the appeals judges didn't leave it there.
"Nor has the Government established that the White House counsel’s interpretation of the Executive Order is binding on all executive branch officials responsible for enforcing the Executive Order. The White House counsel is not the President, and he is not known to be in the chain of command for any of the Executive Departments," the court wrote.
Some legal experts said the Trump administration's contention that Mc Gahn could clarify the order was bizarre. If Trump wanted to change it, he could have in moments with the stroke of a pen, but the bravado exhibited by the president and his aides seemed to foreclose that possibility.
"There were other options," said George Washington University law professor John Banzhaf. "The president's counsel has no official standing at all ...The Homeland Security Secretary does, the Secretary of State does. Maybe it's not as good as the president himself, but it's a hell of a lot better than the counsel, the president's dog, his wife or his son, all of whom have no official standing whatsoever in the government.
edited 10th Feb '17 3:08:43 PM by sgamer82
A bit more info on the new immigration order
"Trump looks at new immigration order, no Supreme Court appeal" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-court-idUSKBN15O2XS
EDIT:
Federal agents conduct sweeping immigration enforcement raids in at least 6 states
edited 10th Feb '17 3:19:46 PM by sgamer82
Kasich seems to already be preparing to try and primary Trump in 2020
.

Maybe we'll be starting to see more an inverse of the Your Approval Fills Me with Shame trope? If Trump twitter bashes it it must be doing something right.