Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
My understanding was that it was three male senators that read that letter, Sanders included. I think Schumer was another. They'd have had to shut down multiple senators for the same offense. Hell, I understand the rule they cited, sounds fair to me, but this was about reviewing an AG that happened to be a Senator at the time. Plus, she was reading someone's opinion based on his own actions, not impugning the man.
Let it be said that when asked if was sexist, Warren just said that it was wrong. Which, if this is going to be the SOP for the Democrats if one of them gets shut down again, might well be true.
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah they couldn't shut down all the Dems without causing a scene, especially if one refused to leave or halt reeding. Still I could also buy that Warren got shut down when others would not have been, both due to her gender but also due to her political beliefs.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Destroyer of Worlds
Trump: You know, I actually didn't know I was signing an executive order to build death camps for minorities and liberals but CROOKED HILLARY would've started World War III, believe me. You should be grateful you got me.
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
@Linktothefuture: re writing our own constitution: here's another.
Re relentless pessimism- I dont mind people venting their frustration, but I do insist on providing some context. American democracy really is very robust. Dont forget that all this has happened before: demagogic populism, a wave of reactionary policies, the restriction of civil rights, the demonization of minorities, corruption and incompetence at the highest levels of government. Journalists getting arrested. Protest made illegal. And you know what? We're still here.
History will repeat itself. If we stand our ground, support each other, defend the truth and remain non-violent, we will win. The Civil Rights movement has a 150+ year history of winning in the face of far more violent and entrenched resistance than this.
Seriously, Trump is his own worst enemy. Keep the faith, and get involved.
edited 8th Feb '17 6:19:48 PM by DeMarquis
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
I wonder what the republicans who defend trump eould think of him if he was their employee or someone they were more directly depending on like a security guard or store clerk.
Because he isnt someone who respects his job. Hes the type of guy to not attend training sessions and then make some really big mistake due to not knowing something basic the company tells everyone several times over.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
At this point I think the Republicans are Trapped in Villainy. They know their policies are bullshit and probably want to break away but can't face it because of pride/ego/fear of losing.
edited 8th Feb '17 6:22:45 PM by RAlexa21th
Where there's life, there's hope.
Destroyer of Worlds
@Mad Skillz: Which is what I find darkly hilarious. There are many actual conservatives among the Democrats, and they run the full gamut: dedicated pro-life speakers, devoutly religious policy makers, and an enormous range of fiscal policy and federal/state power interaction. If the Republican leaders were actually who they claim to be, they would fit comfortably inside the Democratic platform-and the realization that they are not and have never been real conservatives must be eating away at a few of them. The party was always reactionary, it just looked conservative because it was only 10 years out of date after Goldwater, and the Democrats were still integrating the 'second way' through the early 70's.
edited 8th Feb '17 6:36:03 PM by ViperMagnum357
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It's also in part due to a Vicious Cycle. They fed their voter base propaganda and jingoism while pandering to their prejudices for so long that any attempts at pragmatic bipartisanship cost them votes. I think Obama brought this up once.
@Draghinazzo
I don't know about the Republicans, but I wouldn't hire Trump or most of his Cabinet to run anything more important than a lemonade stand. And I'd only hire them to run the stand if I was really desperate.
edited 8th Feb '17 6:44:02 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
Well, the white working class has been losing its economic, political and cultural privileges for several generations now, and it scares the hell out of them. Now that they are losing jobs at an alarming rate (which is true, though not just for them) it's added real desperation to their political views. They really do feel that the Washington elite disrespects them (which isn't entirely untrue) and would probably support just about anyone who could plausibly claim to represent their interests.
Ironically, we should probably blame the leadership of both the Republican and Democratic parties for the rise of someone like Trump. They lied for so long and became so blatantly hippocritical that working class voters simply dont trust them anymore.
Trump is a bull in the china shop. That's what they wanted, that's what they got, and so far, if you are white and working class, what Trump has done so far isn't that upsetting.
WWC voters aren't evil or even all that irrational. Their views are sectarian, poorly informed and more than a little racist, but not necessarily irrational, at least from their own point of view.
And that's why Trump is in real trouble if he fails to deliver on his promises. He cant backpedal without seeming to become the type of political hack that he ran against, and so he is trapped into a spiral of increasing impotence as resistence builds both within and outside the government. We keep the pressure up and the man will crack.
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
Would that it were so simple.
How much money does the DNC spend on Manchin? The correct answer is, of course, "too much," but I'll bet we could get four senators elected elsewhere with all the money we spend hawking this fake Democrat to red blooded West Virginia.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
A wandering user
....I guess I would really stop with my attempt of making others feel better in the world view...
Do not give up hope, and moral support is appreciated, but perhaps offer something more substantial to go with the platitudes-find something that happened in your own country that suggests a new strategy we might take here. That said, some of your prior posts can be read as patronizing, which is not appreciated for those of us stuck here under this regime.
edited 8th Feb '17 7:18:22 PM by ViperMagnum357
Destroyer of Worlds
The firebrand Texas Senator then proceeded to invoke the Democratic Party’s history and its stranglehold on the South before the 1960’s.
“I’ll point out the Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan. You look at the most racist, the Dixiecrats they were Democrats who imposed segregation, who imposed Jim Crow laws who founded the Klan. The clan was founded by a great many Democrats. Now the Democrats accuse anyone they disagree with of being a racist.”
Ugh. Someone punch this guy in the face.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ted-cruz-democrats-are-the-party-of-the-ku-klux-klan/
There's nothing wrong with trying to make people feel better, but if often goes down better if you provide a reason why you yourself feel that way.
Jumping a good hundred years of history there, Ted.
edited 8th Feb '17 7:21:12 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Luigisan, you aren't wrong to want to stay positive and keep hope alive. The problem is simply the way you're going about it. Responding to very real concerns from people - some of whom have legitimate cause to fear for their life - with "Don't worry, be happy" comes across as patronizing.
To my knowledge, nobody's actually planning on giving up. Most of us are ready to go down with the ship if that's what it takes. But we are also trying to be cognizant of the very real dangers that surround us in this administration.
Optimism, like all other things, is only good in moderation. It is important to hope for the best, but it is every bit as important to prepare for the worst.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
x6 That's still exchanging a near sure thing—incumbent advantage and all—for a maybe down the road. I still remember the expectant declarations of a solid blue west and flipping freakin Texas last year...
edited 8th Feb '17 7:22:49 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
A wandering user
Yes...my Hope is one of stainless steel...but you're right, maybe next I should bring something more substantial when necessary...
I just don't want to become a thorn here for my ideals...
The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
The only thing trump can do for the wwc is make everyone else's lives even shittier than theirs so they have someone to look down on.
@ cruz's bullshit: a perfect example of intellectual dishonesty.
He isnt wrong about the racist history of the democrats, but he conveniently ignores the fact that the democrats are not that party anymore.
Meanwhile the GOP candidate who won the election speaks ill of any minority group imaginable, and the republican party does nothing but foster jingoism and distrust in anyone who isnt white, straight and christian.
edited 8th Feb '17 7:28:54 PM by Draghinazzo
Of course, since everyone does and thinks racist things, and the Left acknoweldges this, Cruz is right, in a way. It's just that he, and the rest of the Right, think that racism is some extra specially horrific thing that only evil people do.
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
Unless they're doing it, in which case it's not racism at all.
That's not necessarily disingenuous. They believe that they themselves are not evil, therefore their own thinking style can't be racist.
I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies
The amount of doublethink required for them to claim some of those actions are neither evil nor racist cross the line into disingenuous.
No racist will ever admit to being racist because the word "racism" implies unfairness about the belief or action in question. No racist thinks their beliefs are unreasonable ergo they cant be racist.
The republican party also takes advantage of the very juvenile and one-dimensional definition of racism that most people use, which is that what matters is the person's intent and their feelings, as opposed to the effects their actions have.
That is why they can justify voter suppression measures, to joe sixpack nothing about it sounds terribly unreasonable or discriminatory. Its only when you take a closer look at how it affects people that you understand the effect of those laws.
edited 8th Feb '17 7:40:37 PM by Draghinazzo
Trump not realizing he put Bannon on the NSC.
When Trump said he wouldn't attend the briefings and wouldn't bother reading the details of the things he was signing, he wasn't kidding.
His incompetence is unbearable.
Inter arma enim silent leges