The General US Politics Thread

Constant pessimism? Tell that to the millions of people who MIGHT lose their healthcare. Tell that to the millions of minorities who are going to get fucked by the Justice Department. Tell that to the thousands of refugees who can't come anywhere in the west because of rampant racism. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East who may see another foreign occupation under Trump. The teachers who will get fucked by Betsy De Vos. The allies who we've depended on for DECADES coming to see us as unreliable. The countries affected by a potential trade war. Women who could lose access to abortion. The list goes on and on.

Don't give me that bullshit about "Why are you guys being so pessimistic." Because the world currently is going to fucking SHIT and the best hope we have is slowing down the process so we can look forward to SOME things not all of them.

I'm going to fight. I'm going to fight like hell, but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that "Everything is fine." and not live in objective reality.

This country showed it's ass, last November.

edited 8th Feb '17 3:44:53 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!

Didn't this all start because someone was sick of seeing yet another "there's nothing we can do, if we protest Trump will have us all gunned down in the street by his thugs", because that's hardly the same as demanding others share your exact outlook.

There's plenty of room to be pessimistic without assuming that all protesters are going to be gunned down and that nothing can be down to prevent it.

edited 8th Feb '17 3:50:10 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

First off; no one has ever said "everything is fine" in this thread. I don't think anyone in this thread is even remotely close to thinking that of the current situation. I certainly fucking haven't, if you've actually been paying attention to my posts. What has been said, repeatedly, is "we were never better than this". What has been said is "this is the end of democracy". REPEATEDLY. Which is a useless line of thinking that encourages giving up on all those things you guys are talking about.

Silas gets it; I'm sick of the "there's nothing we can do" attitude that some posters exhibit here. It's fucking exhausting, and prevents insightful discussion here. Just because you two aren't engaging in it doesn't mean it's not happening. Yeah, I get it, I've said so several times, things right now are incredibly discouraging. But wallowing in that feeling can blind you to the various things than can and are being done to help make things better. And a few posters here seem bound and determined to wallow in that feeling.

edited 8th Feb '17 3:52:52 PM by AceofSpades

I really don't want to make this about other posters but, my initial post, which Ace of Spades replied to, was aimed at Luigi. Who does seem pretty determined to demand that everyone share their opinion that America is incapable of ever turning into an illiberal state and that it will somehow be intrinsically prevented. And was repeatedly called out for that. Including, if memory serves, by one of the mods (though I'll grant I've been having the week from Hell and could be misremembering).

@Ace of Spades

I put these two comments of yours back to back because I think they're worth reading back to back. Like you said, just because Tactical and I aren't engaging in pessimism doesn't mean others aren't. However, the fact that you aren't engaging in unfounded optimism or demanding that others do the same (and if you notice I never said that you personally were; my original comment was said to Luigi and then you engaged with me on the topic in general) doesn't mean that the person I was originally speaking to wasn't.

Now since I think we're getting pretty close to "discussing other tropers" rather than politics we should probably leave it there.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:04:25 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

For the record, my perspective is "shit is really bad, we have to do something".

Things being bad isn't a reason to give up, it's a reason to get off your ass and do what you can to fix the bad things. It worked great for the GOP (well, you know, from a political perspective) when they saw things that helped poor people and minorities, said "this is bad" and got off their asses to go break it, and we can do the same to both stop them (or at least try everything we can to stop them), to regain the House, Senate, and/or White House, and start to undo the damage.

Hilariously, the incoming administration is so busy being utterly incompetent that a lot of the worst-case scenarios may not come to pass because they're too stupid/distracted to enact them. For example, the Obamacare repeal seems to be capsizing under the swell of public backlash, with Republican Congressmen fleeing appearances to discuss it.

Trump's immigrant ban is facing severe opposition in the courts, the wall hasn't been built yet, his approval of the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines is meaningless until they actually get built, and so on. His people are being laughed at in international diplomacy.

No, the worst immediate damage is likely to come from his rubber-stamping of the Republican Congress' tax agenda.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:14:25 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well, it's been only a few weeks. Even the wicked need time for their evil plans.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Did that poll specify which news media outlets? Because I assume scum of the Earth flat-out liars like Breitbart and Fox are included under that title, which would bring down the trust in news media quite a bit.

Wait until a major terrorist attack hits us and that's used as a means of consolidating power in the executive branch.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:21:58 PM by CaptainCapsase

And Sessions is confirmed AG: 52-47-1 by what I've seen.

Goodbye Civil Rights!

New Survey coming this weekend!

Did any Democrats vote to confirm the Grand Wizard?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

It doesn't look any of them did, I think that's perfectly split down party lines. The one abstaining vote was Sessions himself for obvious reasons.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:33:32 PM by CaptainCapsase

Good to know that Shill Stein can still blame them.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Was the 1 an abstention?

Wait shit, actually Joe Machin from West Virginia voted for Sessions. Every other democrat plus both of the independent senators (Sanders and King) voted no, and to play devil's advocate, I'm fairly sure Stein is arguing that corporate democrats' Hubris is to blame for the Republicans having almost total control of the country; not entirely untrue, but not really helping at all.

Yes, that one who abstained was Sessions himself though.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:37:28 PM by CaptainCapsase

No. The spreadsheet they have up simply says 39.4% of respondents feel that the media is truthful, 53.4% untruthful. There's no mention of what exactly the survey questions were either. I hope someone does some further research.

Breakdown by party:

Well, that's not horrifying!

For my part, when I post links in here, I try to focus more on the victories of the resistance, even the small ones, and to things people here could contribute to (especially donation drives because I have very little money myself currently). As long as people are actively trying to do things, the Despair Event Horizon is still far off, and it's good to remember that at least half of America does not suck quite so much.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:49:50 PM by Elle

I expect that the question just said "the media", nobody likes "the media" or trusts them, however those on the right do trust their media.

It seems to come down to partisan split, Dems don't trust Trump or the press (which after all the "they're both equally to blame" bullshit much of cable media has pushed I can understand) while Republicans trust Trump but don't trust the press because they don't workship at Trump's feet.

MACHIN!!!

There's not much that can be done, in the end he's a Democrat who was able to win in West Virginia in 2010 (in a special election), until someone is able to show me a progressive Democrat that can do the same Machin might as well be untouchable.

Still he can go to the bottom of the funding pile, I'd rather a New Democrat in Arizona, Nevada or Texas than him.

edited 8th Feb '17 4:51:25 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

I'm sorry, but f*** that.
We were cowed by terror campaigns and just let Reconstruction slip away the first time., then didn't refute the "Lost Cause" myth. ^note  I obviously wasn't around then. Burger and Rehnquist whittled down the Civil Rights movements on the grounds of fairness and equality, under the 14th amendment, of all things. Reagan and Clinton pulverized minority neighborhoods under cover of rescuing the children from vile drugs.
I have no intention of letting a fourth round in my lifetime go unanswered, even if it's the third generation down the line who'll finally grow up in better times.

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives

So Sanders also read the Coretta Scott letter in protest of Elizabeth Warren being shut down, and didn't get hit with the same rule.

edited 8th Feb '17 5:12:17 PM by CaptainCapsase

Aaaaaand Spicer puts his foot in his mouth again.

Report alleges Trump didn't realize he was putting Bannon on the NSC.

It's almost like he's a man or something.

Very possible, though given the backlash was already building, I imagine they didn't want to make things worse by censuring another senator.

and Who says it can't be both?