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Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#173251: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:22:28 AM

[up] That what should matter at least.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#173252: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:22:38 AM

Any way for Cali to export that excess output to neighboring states?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#173253: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:28:08 AM

Make preferences for blue states.

Because at this point, pettiness is all we have left.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#173254: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:29:07 AM

The American power grid has a reputation for being below third world country in terms of quality and I don't see this Congress improving it, so no likely. I'd probably use it to fill up the remaining reservoirs. And keep it ready for an actual mega-drought. And perhaps to lure power-hungry businesses there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#173255: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:30:11 AM

I don't think you can save power like it's water. I mean, you can store it chemically, but once it's generated, it's out there and needs to be used or it's wasted.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#173256: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:32:53 AM

It would be nice if they could sell it to Texas, since before all the rain that's been falling on the state over the past couple of years, we were having power issues.

But considering Texas is on a power island and the people in power, I don't expect them to even want to buy it.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#173257: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:34:27 AM

I was thinking more in terms of power generating capacity. Keep all these excess power plants ready for when you need desal water for agriculture. You just might need it in case of an actual mega drought.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#173258: Feb 8th 2017 at 9:46:28 AM

Or in case California is forced to pull an exit and Arizona shuts off the LA water supply.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#173259: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:11:14 AM

Well, good luck with that in Cali, but see here. One of the original 13 states is busy making us all proud: Give legal residents “noncitizen” driver’s licenses

Hundreds of thousands of legal Georgia residents who are not U.S. citizens would have their driver’s licenses branded with the term “noncitizen” under a bill that passed a House of Representatives committee Tuesday.

“I don’t care if you’re a regional vice president for Mercedes,” Powell told the House Motor Vehicles Committee Tuesday. “If you’re in this country and can get a driver’s license, it at least ought to have on there ‘noncitizen.’”
Powell said he doesn’t see any downside to the “noncitizen” label.
“I don’t think ‘noncitizen’ is a very offensive term,” Powell said. “It just clearly states it.”
Meanwhile: Senate flap sends Coretta Scott King’s 31-year-old letter viral
The late-night dust-up quickly spawned the hashtag #Let Liz Speak that was trending on Twitter early Wednesday.
Immediately after being shut down, Warren took to Facebook Live to read the Coretta Scott King letter. As of this post, the video had 7 million viewers.

Reading of Coretta Scott King’s letter even spread this morning to the [Georgia] state Capitol, where state Sen. Vincent Fort squeezed as much as he could into the five minutes (and slightly more) allotted to him:
“You can’t shut down an idea. You stop one debate, you create one million debates. As a matter of fact, maybe we should thank Mr. Mc Connell for his obstruction. Because what he did is make Coretta Scott King’s letter more popular, even more widespread.”

edited 8th Feb '17 10:14:10 AM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#173260: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:12:42 AM

@blkwhtrbbt: You can save power to a point, through such measures as batteries and lifting water. It's part of how a solar-based power grid handles nighttime needs.

Of course, that isn't as useful for long-term needs.

TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#173261: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:14:17 AM

That letter is really a perfect opportunity for Democrats. Give it to every member, and if they continue silencing people, just have the next one pick it up without breaking stride. I'd love to see the GOP silence the entire Democrat portion of the Senate just to protect Sessions from criticism.

edited 8th Feb '17 10:14:46 AM by TheRoguePenguin

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#173262: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:16:03 AM

Long term needs require saving the infrastructure so it can keep supplying those short term needs.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#173263: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:18:22 AM

Arizona cannot turn off the water supply of LA. For one thing, Arizona's main water supply channel starts in the same lake (Lake Havasu) as the Colorado River Aqueduct. Also, LA has two other water supply lines, the Los Angeles Aqueduct from Owens Valley and the California Aqueduct from the Bay-Delta area, none of which depends on out of state supplies.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#173264: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:21:51 AM

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/08/markets-will-probably-be-fine-even-if-president-donald-trump-stumbles.html

Could this mean that the Markets will remain stable even if Trump's government crumbles?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#173265: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:26:05 AM

[up][up]I'd always heard that California had a legal agreement with Arizona and Colorado that locals couldn't trap rainwater because California owned all the water rights and needed that ground water feeding the Colorado river to keep LA up. Hell, remember that dustup over Arizona's immigration laws years ago? They've already threatened in the past to turn off the tap through legal means,.

BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#173266: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:28:12 AM

[up][up] It won't crumble. Even if people go after them with the proverbial torches and pitchforks (which they won't), Trump will just have them machine gunned.

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#173267: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:30:24 AM

Ah, the Colorado River Compact. That is more important for the Imperial and Coachella valleys, though. Unless the sources you talk about have info that I don't have.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#173268: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:31:21 AM

[up][up] Are you still believing for the worst?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#173269: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:33:11 AM

[up] Can't see any reason not to. And looking at that article, it might be even worse if the market booms and people make their usual Pavlovian association of that with Trump, even though he's just riding the momentum created during Obama's terms.

edited 8th Feb '17 10:33:20 AM by BrainSewage

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#173270: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:33:59 AM

[up] Even so, that doesn't mean the end of hope and freedom.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#173271: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:42:42 AM

[up]This is getting very old. Telling people to stop being pessimistic is one thing, but if you don't have an argument for why they should it gets meaningless fast.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#173272: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:44:33 AM

Conservatives fall in line because, despite all their blather about liberty, they are authoritarians, and authoritarian personalities desperately want to be told what to do.

They also just really hate "liberals" and the Democratic party unconditionally, is what Trump's win tells me, and they especially hated Hillary so here we are.

As I've said multiple times you could have the Son of Satan be the next Republican candidate, and he could prove it, and Republican voters would still fall in line and try to justify the democratic candidate being worse somehow.

The reality is that all their talk doesn't really mean anything beyond wanting to keep an immoral, anti-intellectual status quo harkening back to a time period that only ever existed in their minds. And they don't care who has to get hurt to maintain it. They could care less if they live in an autocratic regime where they had worse lives than they did before, as long as there is a boot stepping on the face of everyone they hate.

edited 8th Feb '17 10:46:33 AM by Draghinazzo

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#173273: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:50:33 AM

So long as they can feel better than someone that's all that matters.

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#173274: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:51:20 AM

[up]On the Coretta Scott King letter reading. Man, those Republican Senators are deluded. "Character assassination"? "Personal attacks"? Wasn't that basically what Trump's entire campaign consisted of? Plus she was bringing up legitimate concerns that the person they were about to confirm was a proven bigot and abuser of power. They want rational debate to come back to the Senate floor, maybe they should all shut up and let others talk.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#173275: Feb 8th 2017 at 10:57:05 AM

A conservative group, led by Regan's former Secretary of State James Baker, III, is going to propose a carbon tax as a substitute for Obama's Clean Power Plan.

    article 
A group of Republican elder statesmen is calling for a tax on carbon emissions to fight climate change.

The group, led by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, with former Secretary of State George P. Shultz and Henry M. Paulson Jr., a former secretary of the Treasury, says that taxing carbon pollution produced by burning fossil fuels is “a conservative climate solution” based on free-market principles.

Mr. Baker is scheduled to meet on Wednesday with White House officials, including Vice President Mike Pence, Jared Kushner, the senior adviser to the president, and Gary D. Cohn, director of the National Economic Council, as well as Ivanka Trump.

In an interview, Mr. Baker said that the plan followed classic conservative principles of free-market solutions and small government. He suggested that even former President Ronald Reagan would have blessed the plan: “I’m not at all sure the Gipper wouldn’t have been very happy with this.” He said he had no idea how the proposal would be received by the current White House or Congress.

A carbon tax, which depends on rising prices of fossil fuels to reduce consumption, is supported in general by many Democrats, including Al Gore. Major oil companies, including Exxon Mobil, have come out in favor of the concept as well.

The Baker proposal would substitute the carbon tax for the Obama administration’s Clean Power Plan, a complex set of rules to regulate emissions which President Trump has pledged to repeal and which is tied up in court challenges, as well as other climate regulations. At an initial price of $40 per ton of carbon dioxide produced, the tax would raise an estimated $200 billion to $300 billion a year, with the rate scheduled to rise over time.

The tax would be collected where the fossil fuels enter the economy, such as the mine, well or port; the money raised would be returned to consumers in what the group calls a “carbon dividend” amounting to an estimated $2,000 a year for the average family of four.

The plan would also incorporate what are known as “border adjustments” to increase the costs for products from other countries that do not have a similar system in place, an idea intended to address the problem of other “free-rider” nations gaining a price advantage over carbon-taxed domestic goods. The proposal would also insulate fossil fuel companies against possible lawsuits over the damage their products have caused to the environment.

Attacks on the plan can be expected from many quarters, even among supporters of a carbon tax in theory. Supporters of the Clean Power Plan are likely to oppose its repeal. Democrats also tend to oppose limitations on the right to sue like those envisioned in the Baker proposal. And the idea of a dividend will no doubt anger those in the environmental movement who would prefer to see the money raised by the tax used to promote renewable energy and other new technologies to reduce emissions.

It is also unclear how the plan will be received by the Trump administration. Stephen K. Bannon, the senior counselor to the president, has shown little interest in appeasing establishment Republicans. Breitbart News, which Mr. Bannon led before joining the Trump White House staff, has been outspoken in denying the science of climate change.

Whatever the fate of the plan, it is a notable moment because it puts influential members of the Republican establishment on the record as favoring action on climate change — a position that is publicly held by few Republicans at the national level, though many quietly say they would like to throw off the orthodoxy in the party that opposes action.

“This represents the first time Republicans put forth a concrete, market-based climate solution,” said Ted Halstead, an author of the paper and social entrepreneur whose organization, the Climate Leadership Council, is posting the memo outlining the plan. Mr. Halstead, who also founded the New America research institute, said the political left and right had stalled on climate action in part because they disagreed about the means to fixing the problem, even though they might find common ground.

Some popular environmentalists take stands that those on the right can never embrace, Mr. Halstead said, citing the works of Naomi Klein, who attacks capitalism itself as the root of climate change. “That is so at odds with the conservative worldview, of course they’re going to walk away,” he said. “The only way for this solution to come about is if it gets a start on the right.”

The other co-authors of the memo include N. Gregory Mankiw and Martin Feldstein, former chairmen of the Council of Economic Advisers, and Rob Walton, the former chairman of Wal-Mart.

A survey taken just after the 2016 election by the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication found that 66 percent of registered voters supported a carbon tax on fossil fuel companies, with the money used to reduce personal taxes. The party breakdown for that support was 81 percent of Democrats, 60 percent of independents and 49 percent of Republicans. Even among Trump voters, 48 percent support taxing fossil fuel companies, according to the Yale program.

Mr. Baker said it was time for the Republican Party to engage in the discussion of global warming beyond simple denial.

“It’s really important that we Republicans have a seat at the table when people start talking about climate change,” Mr. Baker said. He said that, like many Republicans, he was skeptical that human activity was the main cause of warming, but that the stakes were too high for inaction. “I don’t accept the idea that it’s all man made,” he said, “but I do accept that the risks are sufficiently great that we need to have an insurance policy.”

As for the likelihood of success of his plan, “I have no idea what the prospects are.”

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

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