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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yes, and that issue goes both ways; if a Sanders-disciple ends up winning the primary in 2020, I expect the same level of support that was demanded of me by the center in 2016, and which I gave, despite my reservations about Clinton, and which I will give to whichever candidate appears to be the least harmful no matter how bad things get so long as there is a discernible difference between the magnitude of the probable negative impact.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:25:48 PM by CaptainCapsase
Congratulations to them. Also, thanks.
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you@Tactical Fox-
I think the Russia thing can be taken too far and this is an example of that. Yes, Stein did go to a soiree in Russia, but I think she can and should be criticized for demonstrating a more extreme example of Leftists being focused on tearing down Democrats without getting into conspiracy theories.
That seems like the evil version of "you got peanut-butter in my chocolate" (or however that goes). As it is, a lot of Trump's policy preferences line up with Putins such that we already have both of them.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:27:18 PM by Hodor2
Have you yet reached the point where Vladimir Putin would be a better US president than Trump?
...maybe that's precisely what Putin wants.
In any case, I'm sure no one wants to see Trump shirtless.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:26:40 PM by Medinoc
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."Putin is better than Trump in that he's less erratic. And isn't out to torch his own government in sacrifice to his dark and terrible deity: Supply Side Jesus.
A slightly optimistic article on Trump's chances of putting authoritarianism into force in the US. Yes, his tactics have worked/are working in Russia/Turkey/Hungary/way too many other places. But the US has stronger institutions, traditions and a highly individualistic culture, so the opposition will be stronger. It will be a fight, but not an impossible one.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/opinions/fight-for-democracy-opinion-ghitis/index.html
The Election Assistance Commission just got axed.
Sounds like a good first step if they were planning to, say, rig state-level elections.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Regarding the 2020 primary and Sanders disciples, I'd be thrilled to vote for Ellison. Not so much that guy (name escapes me) who was running for Pelosi's spot and was all about saying that Democrats turned off the white working class because of Political Correctness Gone Mad.
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"Trump was defending the Russian President after Fox's Bill O'Reilly called Putin a 'killer.' His response, 'You think our country is so innocent,' reveals Trump's dismissive attitude toward the most fundamental democratic norms that America has aspired to embody. Clearly, the United States has made many grave mistakes throughout history, but the country's guiding principles have remained unchanged: the fierce defense of individual liberties and an unshakeable commitment to democratic ideals."
I mean I can't help but roll my eyes at this, I'm sorry. That's even less self aware than the response of many pundits to the Russian hacks.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:35:09 PM by CaptainCapsase
Its very idealistic/rose tinted (the Churchill quote on Americans comes to mind), yes. But that populism expert seems to be confident. I'm more interested in the present resistance, especially institutionally from the courts, etc (or mass, sustained protests/general strikes when it comes to that) having an impact. History is one thing, but I do think that a 200 year old democracy, flawed as it is, is more immunized to authoritarianism than Russia or Turkey.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:36:38 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.by the way, have you seen all the "America First - X second" vids out there, which were made in reaction to the America First - Netherlands second one? I think there are around nine by now...I am particularly found of the Lithuania one. But the one from Germany also does a great job ripping into alternative facts.....
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Much less vulnerable to outright authoritarianism perhaps, but an illiberal but still somewhat democratic limbo isn't at all hard to see.
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That rather depends on what kind of platform she runs on honestly. I'd say >50% of politicians are opportunists, and while she's definitely one of those, she doesn't appear to be in a way that's all that far from the norm like Trump.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:40:57 PM by CaptainCapsase
She supports murderous tyrants like Putin and Assad. That alone should disqualify her a thousand times over.
In case anyone's forgotten, this is Assad.
Literally every post-war President would be, at a minimum tried for war crimes if the principles the Nuremberg trials were conducted with were applied; Trump's not wrong to say "You think our country is so innocent"; we've dealt with people every bit as bad as Assad; ie Saddam Hussein during the height of his genocide against the kurds was "Our boy" because of geopolitical reasons. It's not particularly pleasant, but it's also completely normal for America to support and occasionally carry out horrific abuses of human rights.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:48:54 PM by CaptainCapsase
That's true and he's not necessarily wrong there (although he was obviously supporting authoritarian behavior not engaging in Chomskeyite critique). But the argument (which I not to agree with) that all politicians are awful is not a good rebuttal to someone pointing out why a specific politician is (particularly) awful.
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He is wrong to use that as an excuse to commit whatever atrocities he wants. His statements about the Japanese internment camps have revealed that attitude well enough. FDR interned the Japanese, and people still think FDR was good, therefore interning the Japanese was good! Flawless logic!
I agree with you honestly.
We're talking about the same country that funded a bunch of quasi-fascist military regimes in Latin America in the name of advancing their geopolitical interests, all of which were violently repressive and unspeakably cruel, setting the intellectual, moral and political growth of those countries back by decades. My country is still feeling the effects of that.
Of course, Trump refusing to condemn Putin is bad, and what Russia did to the US elections was wrong no two ways about it, but this is about one of the only times he's had something even vaguely resembling a valid point.
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I think Trump is exploiting the sense of despair pointing out the horrible things America has done and will undoubtedly continue to do under Trump tends to generate.
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It by no means excuses him, but it's clever of him to say that, because it's a very good way of undermining his opponents moral high ground, since he's not wrong about the United States being Not So Different from other major powers, certainly not nearly as different as we tell ourselves we are.
edited 7th Feb '17 12:56:31 PM by CaptainCapsase

Trump says the US murder rate is at a 47 year high. The reality isn't even close to that.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/donald-trump-murder-rate-fact-check/index.html
Alt Facts are a hell of a thing.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.