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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#173051: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:19:47 PM

Trump says the US murder rate is at a 47 year high. The reality isn't even close to that.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/politics/donald-trump-murder-rate-fact-check/index.html

Alt Facts are a hell of a thing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#173052: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:20:46 PM

She's been taking more swipes at Democrats than the GOP. Hell she said TRUMP would be better than Hillary.

There's no smoke yet, but I believe she's a puppet of the Russians to bait and fracture the progressives and left.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#173053: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:21:29 PM

[up][up][up]

There are certainly folks here for whom it wouldn't strike me as out of character to stay home rather than vote for an establishment Democrat.

Heck, I think one or two posters on this thread admitted to doing that last November.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:21:39 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173054: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:23:38 PM

[up] Yes, and that issue goes both ways; if a Sanders-disciple ends up winning the primary in 2020, I expect the same level of support that was demanded of me by the center in 2016, and which I gave, despite my reservations about Clinton, and which I will give to whichever candidate appears to be the least harmful no matter how bad things get so long as there is a discernible difference between the magnitude of the probable negative impact.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:25:48 PM by CaptainCapsase

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#173055: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:23:45 PM

Congratulations to them. Also, thanks.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#173056: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:25:02 PM

@Tactical Fox-

I think the Russia thing can be taken too far and this is an example of that. Yes, Stein did go to a soiree in Russia, but I think she can and should be criticized for demonstrating a more extreme example of Leftists being focused on tearing down Democrats without getting into conspiracy theories.

[down] That seems like the evil version of "you got peanut-butter in my chocolate" (or however that goes). As it is, a lot of Trump's policy preferences line up with Putins such that we already have both of them.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:27:18 PM by Hodor2

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#173057: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:25:27 PM

Have you yet reached the point where Vladimir Putin would be a better US president than Trump?

...maybe that's precisely what Putin wants.

In any case, I'm sure no one wants to see Trump shirtless.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:26:40 PM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173058: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:27:24 PM

[up] He definitely wants to be perceived as the better option compared to Trump in Europe.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#173059: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:27:53 PM

Ain' nobody wanting to see Putin shirtless either

* hurrffffff

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#173060: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:29:54 PM

I mean. His face isn't great, but I can't say I mind the rest of his physique.

I also detest him as a fascist monster, but. Credit where it's due.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:30:11 PM by unnoun

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#173061: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:30:31 PM

Putin is better than Trump in that he's less erratic. And isn't out to torch his own government in sacrifice to his dark and terrible deity: Supply Side Jesus.

A slightly optimistic article on Trump's chances of putting authoritarianism into force in the US. Yes, his tactics have worked/are working in Russia/Turkey/Hungary/way too many other places. But the US has stronger institutions, traditions and a highly individualistic culture, so the opposition will be stronger. It will be a fight, but not an impossible one.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/opinions/fight-for-democracy-opinion-ghitis/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#173062: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:30:58 PM

The Election Assistance Commission just got axed.

Sounds like a good first step if they were planning to, say, rig state-level elections.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#173063: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:33:01 PM

Regarding the 2020 primary and Sanders disciples, I'd be thrilled to vote for Ellison. Not so much that guy (name escapes me) who was running for Pelosi's spot and was all about saying that Democrats turned off the white working class because of Political Correctness Gone Mad.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173064: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:33:38 PM

[up][up][up] "Trump was defending the Russian President after Fox's Bill O'Reilly called Putin a 'killer.' His response, 'You think our country is so innocent,' reveals Trump's dismissive attitude toward the most fundamental democratic norms that America has aspired to embody. Clearly, the United States has made many grave mistakes throughout history, but the country's guiding principles have remained unchanged: the fierce defense of individual liberties and an unshakeable commitment to democratic ideals."

I mean I can't help but roll my eyes at this, I'm sorry. That's even less self aware than the response of many pundits to the Russian hacks.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:35:09 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#173065: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:34:58 PM

Its very idealistic/rose tinted (the Churchill quote on Americans comes to mind), yes. But that populism expert seems to be confident. I'm more interested in the present resistance, especially institutionally from the courts, etc (or mass, sustained protests/general strikes when it comes to that) having an impact. History is one thing, but I do think that a 200 year old democracy, flawed as it is, is more immunized to authoritarianism than Russia or Turkey.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:36:38 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#173066: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:36:52 PM

[up][up][up] I'm definitely not gonna be happy if it ends up being say, Gabbard vs. Trump somehow.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#173067: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:37:10 PM

by the way, have you seen all the "America First - X second" vids out there, which were made in reaction to the America First - Netherlands second one? I think there are around nine by now...I am particularly found of the Lithuania one. But the one from Germany also does a great job ripping into alternative facts.....

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173068: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:37:53 PM

[up][up][up] Much less vulnerable to outright authoritarianism perhaps, but an illiberal but still somewhat democratic limbo isn't at all hard to see.

[up][up] That rather depends on what kind of platform she runs on honestly. I'd say >50% of politicians are opportunists, and while she's definitely one of those, she doesn't appear to be in a way that's all that far from the norm like Trump.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:40:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#173069: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:44:31 PM

She supports murderous tyrants like Putin and Assad. That alone should disqualify her a thousand times over.

In case anyone's forgotten, this is Assad.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173070: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:45:47 PM

[up] Literally every post-war President would be, at a minimum tried for war crimes if the principles the Nuremberg trials were conducted with were applied; Trump's not wrong to say "You think our country is so innocent"; we've dealt with people every bit as bad as Assad; ie Saddam Hussein during the height of his genocide against the kurds was "Our boy" because of geopolitical reasons. It's not particularly pleasant, but it's also completely normal for America to support and occasionally carry out horrific abuses of human rights.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:48:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#173071: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:49:39 PM

That's true and he's not necessarily wrong there (although he was obviously supporting authoritarian behavior not engaging in Chomskeyite critique). But the argument (which I not to agree with) that all politicians are awful is not a good rebuttal to someone pointing out why a specific politician is (particularly) awful.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#173072: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:51:15 PM

[up][up]He is wrong to use that as an excuse to commit whatever atrocities he wants. His statements about the Japanese internment camps have revealed that attitude well enough. FDR interned the Japanese, and people still think FDR was good, therefore interning the Japanese was good! Flawless logic!

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#173073: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:51:38 PM

Yeah, Trump obviously has no qualms about that kind of behavior. He fucking campaigned on promises to bring back torture and to deliberately target the families of terrorists.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#173074: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:51:48 PM

I mean I can't help but roll my eyes at this, I'm sorry. That's even less self aware than the response of many pundits to the Russian hacks.

I agree with you honestly.

We're talking about the same country that funded a bunch of quasi-fascist military regimes in Latin America in the name of advancing their geopolitical interests, all of which were violently repressive and unspeakably cruel, setting the intellectual, moral and political growth of those countries back by decades. My country is still feeling the effects of that.

Of course, Trump refusing to condemn Putin is bad, and what Russia did to the US elections was wrong no two ways about it, but this is about one of the only times he's had something even vaguely resembling a valid point.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#173075: Feb 7th 2017 at 12:52:00 PM

[up][up][up][up] I think Trump is exploiting the sense of despair pointing out the horrible things America has done and will undoubtedly continue to do under Trump tends to generate.

[up][up][up] It by no means excuses him, but it's clever of him to say that, because it's a very good way of undermining his opponents moral high ground, since he's not wrong about the United States being Not So Different from other major powers, certainly not nearly as different as we tell ourselves we are.

edited 7th Feb '17 12:56:31 PM by CaptainCapsase


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