Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
x4 American education will get even worse than the pitiful state that it's already in. And the majority will resist as much as possible, but they will be completely ignored, and their voices silenced for good measure.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:05:32 AM by TrashJack
"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary![]()
Canada already has a very robust welfare state in place, which is a core element of the platform of Sanders and his general sphere of the left. On social issues, Canada is one of the most successful cases of building genuinely inclusive institutions in the world. As far as France goes, I'm quite skeptical about Marcon's chances honestly; people assumed everyone would rally against Trump if he made it past the primaries, but that didn't happen, and in the French election there's every possibility that both the American and Russian intelligence agencies will be doing pro-bono opposition research on Le Pen's behalf.
If he does win, God help him if he simply tries to govern like its business as usual.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:09:24 AM by CaptainCapsase
Also, I've read stories that, between Trump's attacks on immigration, education, human rights, democracy, and civil society as a whole...foreign companies/Europe/Canada/etc smell the blood in the water that is a potential brain drain.
"Yes, we'll gladly take that Somali brain surgeon off your hands Donald!"
edited 7th Feb '17 11:09:41 AM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.@Rational: Europe is probably even more fucked than the United States is because of the austerity programs that were implemented in response to recession. If a brain drain goes anywhere, it'll be to China when the governments in the west cease to be appreciably better than China's authoritarian government.
Warren and Sanders (and progressive Democrats in general) are pretty ideologically pretty close but Sanders is not a Democrat and the critique of lefitists and those so-called Justice Democrats is all about hating every currently elected Democratic politician (ecept for Sanders, whose not a Democrat, Keith Ellison, because Sanders endorsed him, and Tulsi Gabbard because she endorsed Sanders). And hating Hillary Clinton in particular.
Since Warren does not hate the Democratic Party in general nor Hillary Clinton in particular, she doesn't pass the test.
Also, @Capsase- "I'm going to be sadly shaking my head when this place starts heiling the fuhrer to stave off the red hydra. As I said, you can either repeat the mistakes of the past or try something different." What the fuck.
I know you love to slag off on how everyone is morally inferior to you but calling us Nazis seems like a bit much even for you.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:16:35 AM by Hodor2
![]()
That's a bit of a strawman of the left, and as much as certain ideologues will posture and puff up there chests, I imagine most of the "justice democrats" would be more than happy to meet the center halfway.
Places like Canada and Australia; the latter by virtue of it falling into China's sphere of influence in a multipolar world (and China could care less what sort of government they're dealing with so long as they get what they want from it), and the former because, thus far, Canada seems to be relatively insulated form the populist surge.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:18:53 AM by CaptainCapsase
@Capsase: I have, let's see the direct replies in the positive posts about Warren:
- "I'll take a Gabbard any day over Benedict Warren"
- Warren, although more progressive than clinton, is not a berniecrat.
The other top comments aren't about her. To the next post, Elizabeth Warren Calls Out Republicans For Manipulating DeVos Confirmation Rules - [03:43
:
Then it goes into a back and forth about whether that's good or bad. Next, Elizabeth Warren Gives Progressives In Congress A Rousing Call To Arms Against Trump
:
Only comment there. Next Elizabeth Warren To Democrats: Only an 'Opposition Party' Can Defeat Trump
:
- Was she apart of the 'Opposition Party' when she endorsed Hillary over Bernie? Still bitter pill to swallow every time I see her railing on about progressive activism.
- This is funny hearing Elizabeth Warren say this right after she voted for Ben Carson for HUD secretary.
- She talks the talk. But has fallen awfully short when she has to walk the walk.
Next: Warren: Democrats need to ‘grow a backbone’
- Her amongst them.
- After you...
Warren.
- Hypocrisy much ?
- That's funny coming from the only progressive not to endorse Bernie Sanders
- Says the fence sitter
And I think I've proved my point well enough, plus I'm a bit tired of copy-pasting comments calling for her head.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:20:36 AM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV![]()
![]()
I'm trying to make the point that trying to fight the left tooth and nail out of the fear that they'll enact suboptimal economic policies and weaken America's empire is the very same logic that pushed the German center into supporting the nazis. Sorry for being snide, but it's really annoying that many parts of the centrist base seem to expect the left to capitulate to them without them giving one inch of ground.
IFWander: Comments on the internet have enough chaff that you can use them to come to whatever conclusion you care to about any particular group if you cherry pick well enough. My own experience with that subreddit is that, while there's a subset of people who don't like Warren, most people like her just fine.
edited 7th Feb '17 11:22:47 AM by CaptainCapsase
@Luigi: I don't get how you got that from my post. That's quite a bit of a jump from "companies should be able to sue and be sued, and be able to operate without unfair obstacles" to "I want companies to rule the world"
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison

If people actually knew the Liberals' policy statements, they'd realize that they weren't on the left end of Canada's Overton window (they might have looked like it, because the NDP went a bit to the right). They center-left to the core, pure centrist on trade and economics.
Now the Austrian Greens are indeed outsiders (who I am less familiar with), but they appear to be perfectly within the European center-left mainstream, parties like them get in government/coalitions all the time.
With Trump rapidly imploding (its hard to tell where you will be in 2 or 4 years, but he's setting an example around the world that populism is a bad idea), I wouldn't start digging the center's/center-left's grave quite yet.
And again, look at France.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.