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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172801: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:53:25 PM

But she's good at actually running the country.

And she's not that bad at campaigning. She was effectively the second place finisher twice.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172802: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:56:09 PM

Politics in basically any country is rarely about actual competence or platforms and more on the ability of a politician to sell themselves through personal charisma and making their opponent look bad. Like I said, people do things mainly based on emotional reactions.

edited 6th Feb '17 1:57:09 PM by Draghinazzo

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172803: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:20:44 PM

[up][up]Honestly, by all reasonable standards, she won by a pretty decent margin.

But she had a lot of help. It wasn't until the DNC and all these charismatic cool people vouching for her that I actually got over my initial bad impression of her as a hawkish, Cuba and Iran-hating SOS.

Come to think of it, neither of those historic deals happened under her watch, did they?

edited 6th Feb '17 2:23:00 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#172804: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:24:24 PM

{{172756}}: In the case specific of abortion... well, if i am remembering well, earlier in this thread, shortly after the confirmation of Trump, someone mentioned that Obama thought of changing his mind in this issue. This change of side was too criticized in this thread but... i am Brazilian and i am not an erudite in american politics, but, based in this very thread, the Democrats generally are against dehumanization. And something essential to pro-abortion be a considered a moral position is the position that the fetus is not human.

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#172805: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:26:53 PM

[up]No, the essential is the woman's rights over her body.

Continue writing our story of peace.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172806: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:32:23 PM

Something like "even assuming that the fetus is a full-fleged human, I should not be obligated to donate my blood or the use of my body to any human or risk my life for them, even if they are kin and even if it's the only way they'll stay alive"?

Of course, if "the fetus is not a person to begin with", that saves a lot of emotional energy for the same result.

edited 6th Feb '17 2:41:16 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172807: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:34:28 PM

It depends on what being "human" is. From a strictly biological sense, yes, the fetus is undeniably human.

The real question is, does it deserve to have all the same rights and/or do the fetus' rights override the mother's?

It's a complicated question and to be honest, out of all the positions most commonly associated with reactionaries, this is the one where I can at least somewhat understand.

But ultimately, I think that, if you want to have a compassionate and fair society, you must at least make exceptions for situations where the mother's life is at risk, and rape cases. Because I think that forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term in either of those is cruel.

And going even further than that, I just don't feel like it's my call to tell a woman whether she should do something like that or not. Contrary to what a lot of people (not anyone here, mind you) seem to assume, most people are pro-choice and not pro-abortion because nobody wants to get an abortion. It's not something you do without any consideration or second thoughts for a lot of people.

edited 6th Feb '17 2:36:47 PM by Draghinazzo

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#172808: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:36:17 PM

The kicker is that banning abortion does very little to curb abortion rates. Because in the end, if someone really wants an abortion, they will get it. Only it won't be done legally or safely. Proper sex education, women's education, social safety nets, and actually supporting mothers do a hell of a lot more to decrease the number of abortions that happen in a society.

If pro-lifers actually gave a damn beyond their very narrow reading of religious texts and a false sense of moral superiority, this is what they would focus on.

[up] Exactly. No one just wakes up one day and goes "hey, I'd like to get a potentially risky medical procedure done today because I like killing children."

edited 6th Feb '17 2:38:32 PM by Pseudopartition

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#172809: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:39:33 PM

In other words, you are saying that if a woman believes in the right about her own body, she will be okay with abort even if she sees the fetus as human?

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172810: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:40:06 PM

Please, lets not get into that. Trump supporters to this day are hoping he can wrest their jobs back from "Special Interests" (foreigners and minorities). Some, admitedly, are attracted to his authoritarian style.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172811: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:42:05 PM

I mean, imagine that situation. "Hello! You just woke up with a person plugged into you! They're a real, full-fledged person. They need that you feed and shelter them through your body. It's going to be painful, weird, inconvenient, and incapacitating in many ways, and you'll be risking your own life in the process. Only a little, though: medicine has gotten good at keeping cases like yours alive. What do you say, you don't want this, how can you stop this? But if we unplug them they will surely and absolutely die! What do you mean you're entitled to your own body and shouldn't be forced to save anyone? But they're family! They share half your genes! What happens after nine months, you ask? Well, you can either be in charge of their health and well-being for roughly two decades afterward, or you could give them up to strangers who may or may not take up that burden properly. Their entire future is your responsibility, and will probably completely change yours... if you allow them to have one at all!"

[up][up]Presumably, people opting to abort do so with a heavy heart. But, see above. You wake up with a person plugged into you without your permission, who will die if you unplug them. It's an uncomfortable decision, but surely you wouldn't want to be forced to keep that person plugged, would you?

edited 6th Feb '17 2:43:40 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172812: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:44:05 PM

Unless this stays focused on US political current events, Im calling off topic. Take it to the political culture thread.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#172814: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:48:49 PM

[up]yes

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172815: Feb 6th 2017 at 2:51:14 PM

I think we have a thread specifically for the abortion debate.

Personally I'd say babies should be kept, but no-one should be forced to, and if they can't care for them, there had better damn well be a well-funded and well-executed orphanage program.

Actually my view on that last point is even more extreme than that, but my views on family and legacy are weird and off-topic.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#172816: Feb 6th 2017 at 3:04:30 PM

Abortion is a topic that will officially never get its own thread, as per the forum rules.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172817: Feb 6th 2017 at 3:06:01 PM

We had a thread, but it got locked.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#172818: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:04:54 PM

Trump Executive Action hampers FAA issuing safety

Remember that executive action that requires 2 regulations being removed for each new one?

Well, here we are. The FAA is having trouble issuing safety warnings about aircraft.

edited 6th Feb '17 4:05:14 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172819: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:17:35 PM

See, in a bizzaro world where I was somehow put in charge of the government, cleaing out cruft from laws and regulations is something I would want to do, but bonehead ordering arbitrary mandates is not the way to go about it. Form teams which include experts in the relevant field to comb through the books, find the stuff which is outdated, unenforced, unconstitutional or otherwise makes no sense and which could be cleaned up by legislative overhauls. Then start striking things from the books.

Ireland did something like this a couple years ago.

RabidTanker God-Mayor of Sim-Kind Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
#172820: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:20:20 PM

So what are the requirements for being President again?

Aside from the age, getting elected, and birthplace restriction. Because cutting corners like this is just asking for trouble.

Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172821: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:30:22 PM

Being born here, having lived here for at least 14 years, be at least 35 years old. Those are the only hard requirements. Unwritten: Don't have done anything that could get you removed from office, or if you have, don't get caught.

In practice, they also need to be a member of a major party, have enough money to at least be in upper tax brackets, have been active enough in politics to be recognized.

edited 6th Feb '17 4:31:27 PM by Elle

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#172822: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:36:20 PM

Not being gay, Atheist or belonging to a non Christian religion on top of that...

Inter arma enim silent leges
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172823: Feb 6th 2017 at 4:52:20 PM

Do you think there would be any taboo about a deist running for office?

He could just say he's like the Founding Fathers :p

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#172824: Feb 6th 2017 at 5:01:28 PM

[up]Doubtful, unfortunately-too close to atheist, and no one who actually cares about the religious beliefs of our leaders would bother trying to understand. Viewers Are Morons, and what is our government these days if not reality tv.

[down]Also this, minus the Joking Mode: millions of people in this country believe exactly that.

edited 6th Feb '17 5:06:02 PM by ViperMagnum357


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