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AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#172776: Feb 6th 2017 at 11:45:10 AM

Remember when nearly every autocrat in the 20th was a fool of sorts the parties and power groups though they could control?

I guess no one bothered with studying 20th history beyond WE WON THAT SHIT!.

edited 6th Feb '17 11:45:21 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172777: Feb 6th 2017 at 11:48:10 AM

I've never really understood those defences, because even if we accept them as true, it still makes him a godawful candidate.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172778: Feb 6th 2017 at 11:51:05 AM

Parks And Recreation treats them nicely enough. House Of Cards only has one monster (and his wife), everyone else is different kinds of flawed but well-meaning. The other monster is a businessman. Designated Survivor has them at worst be either ruthlessly pragmatic (while still thinking they're doing the right thing) or emotionally compromised. The Veep has them being vapid rather than evil. The West Wing presents them as tremendously idealistic, but it hasn't aged very well, and by today's standards they're a buncha pretentious pricks... but not monsters.

The only medium where monsters consistently show up as powerful politicians is the Comic Book. Luthor, Osborn, the Rourkes...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#172779: Feb 6th 2017 at 11:57:35 AM

In fairness, Luthor and Osborn were already supervillains, and they started off as businessmen.

...Which lines up pretty well with reality, really.

Oh God! Natural light!
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#172780: Feb 6th 2017 at 11:59:39 AM

I've never really understood those defences, because even if we accept them as true, it still makes him a godawful candidate.
I can't help but wonder how many people used those defenses, but secretly agreed with the discriminatory rhetoric but didn't want to admit it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#172781: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:00:28 PM

I've never really understood those defences, because even if we accept them as true, it still makes him a godawful candidate.

That's because they're incomplete. The other piece of them is, "I'm not voting for Trump. I am voting for the Republican Party."

These are people who assumed that even if Trump was a piece of shit candidate barely held in check by Congress, it was a better alternative to a Democrat in office. Or a politician. Or Hillary specifically. Different hatreds, same rationale.

They're also the reason why we can't take it for granted that Trump's performance in office will ensure we win the next election. Because they are going to spend the next four years going, "Trump f*cked up so hard! Thank God the Republicans were there to keep him from doing worse! Those pansy-ass Democrats would have just bent over for him!"

Even about things that Congress, not the President, did.

edited 6th Feb '17 12:02:58 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#172782: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:03:24 PM

@Tobias: [awesome] 100% agree with that, there's a huge problem in western culture of assuming all politicans are either evil, Well-Intentioned Extremist, historical figures with erased political beliefs or idealists completely out of their depth. We really need some positive portrayals of politicians (who aren't historical figures) in fiction.

EDIT: not talking about post immediately above, but post 172742.

edited 6th Feb '17 12:05:08 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172783: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:04:37 PM

Right, but surely a president who's any of those things is just as capable to being held back by a Republican congress as Trump is.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172784: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:05:50 PM

It's long been taken as fact in America that politicians, like lawyers, are the scum of the universe.

This is true but hardly exclusive to America.

Remember when nearly every autocrat in the 20th was a fool of sorts the parties and power groups though they could control? I guess no one bothered with studying 20th history beyond WE WON THAT SHIT!.

Funny you should mention that: There was a story about a jewish man who spoke to his father, a holocaust survivor and history professor, both before and after trump got into office, and the short of it is that there are some pretty interesting historical parallels between the two. Obviously we're not at Nazi Germany level just yet, and the professor tried his best to not be alarmist, but even he thinks this is cause for serious concern.

But yes, I have said before that nothing about Trump or what he is, is new, and it feels like people didn't learn anything from history class or the media besides a vapid action movie narrative. Whether that's due to bad teaching, poor critical thinking skills, not enough emphasis on the right things, etc I don't know. Probably all of those.

edited 6th Feb '17 12:07:55 PM by Draghinazzo

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#172785: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:08:13 PM

Of note: those people I mentioned basically live in a world where America is a one-party nation. You either vote Republican or you hate America and everything it stands for.

They won't spend the next four years going, "Dammit, Hillary should have won the election." They're going to be going, "Dammit, Ted Cruz should have won the primary."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#172786: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:10:33 PM

Pretty much. They'll never accept a Democrat. Or any leftist.

Oh really when?
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172787: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:14:47 PM

At that point, though, defending Trump is meaningless, because you've already admitted that the only criteria you're using to evaluate candidates is 'did they win the Republican Primaries?'

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#172788: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:25:28 PM

[up][up][up][up]The number of people in the comments of those articles thinking that they know better than a professor of history and a Holocaust survivor is staggering. Yeah, put away your theories of "maybe the GOP can curb his excesses" and "at least he's better than Hillary". Some people are just plain stupid enough to vote for Trump because they honestly believe having him as POTUS is a good thing.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#172789: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:26:39 PM

Defending Trump is meaningless. These folks ain't looking to win debates. To them, they've already won the only thing that matters and the rest of us can just shut the hell up for the next four years.

They aren't interested in open and honest discussion because they don't even really see us as people. They see us as, at best, misguided fools who don't understand the world and, at worst, the wicked tools of Satan here to do his dirty business on Earth.

Radical Evangelism plays a big part in reinforcing that mindset. For instance, abortion. No matter how we try to engage them in discussion about it, they won't give us the time of day because they don't see it as a matter even worthy of discussing. To them, we're all sinful baby-killers who are trying to trick them into selling their soul to our fanatical baby-murder cult.

That's one of the hardest lessons for the left to learn: not everyone is interested in discussing the matter with you. Some folks figure they've got a shotgun and a Bible on their side, and to them, that's the only "argument" that really matters.

edited 6th Feb '17 12:29:34 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#172790: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:41:03 PM

I'm going to try calling my senators about voting against Devos. Is there anything else I should mention? Have they voted on Bannon being in the NSC yet?

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#172791: Feb 6th 2017 at 12:56:21 PM

"I like Trump over politicians because politicians lie just to get votes"

"Oh Trump isn't serious about all of that. He just says that to get votes."

edited 6th Feb '17 1:09:12 PM by NoName999

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#172792: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:01:09 PM

Brain power and moral are not something you seek in Trump voters. They want a cheap laugh at the government while blissfully and willingly ignore the sufferings of everyone else.

Continue writing our story of peace.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#172793: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:04:02 PM

[up][up]When the doublethink hits juuuuust right.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172794: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:08:05 PM

It's not really about anything rational. People, by and large, do things for emotional reasons rather than intellectual ones.

For a lot of voters they just really disliked Hillary, and the reasons for why were just rationalizations or post-fact justifications, so they voted Trump because "anything is better than Hillary".

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172795: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:37:19 PM

Honestly, Hillry should never have been a politician. She's a natural Civil Servant. She could have run the US from the comfort of an office. Why did she want to be in the line of fire?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172796: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:39:25 PM

Because the US has this weird thing where they insist that everyone who wants any real power win a popularity contest first.

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#172797: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:41:44 PM

Everyone who is a minority is automatically under fire. By your logic only white hetero cisgender Protestant male righties should run for office.

Continue writing our story of peace.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#172798: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:44:00 PM

Yeah, well, Obama was a big tall negro, and he still got people to love him. Kennedy was Irish-American. Etc. I'm not saying "she shouldn't have run because she's a woman", I'm saying "she shouldn't have run because she sucks at popularity contests".

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172800: Feb 6th 2017 at 1:47:16 PM

It's more like being a politician puts anyone under the line of fire, just from different people.

A white male heterosexual right-winger is going to be under line of fire from people like us, depending on what he does.


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