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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@Angelus Nox: That's nice but the specific event we're talking about involved literally none of what you just listed. It was a peaceful protest up until some assholes decided to set off some flares. We're not anywhere near a Tianenmen square problem yet. In fact, there haven't really been a lot of shooting incidents in the protests that have been occurring the last two weeks. You're basically saying "yeah do the thing" when the other side hasn't yet done the thing. Those antifa guys were not justified in what they did.
And quite frankly, it's unwise for protesters to be the first ones to get violent; makes them the useful tool for the bigots to wield against whatever cause is being discussed.
edited 5th Feb '17 12:59:13 PM by AceofSpades
Trump is on Twitter ranting about the judge who halted his Muslim ban, and saying that "if something happens, blame him and the court system."
In other words, if and when a terrorist attack occurs, the regime will use that as an excuse to weaken or abolish judicial power.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."![]()
Since trumplings are minority, this is best marketing sense. Smart! Trumplings only complain because their lives are a total disaster, and their hearts and minds and hands are three sizes too small. Sad!
Smart move. Very Bush.
edited 5th Feb '17 1:28:49 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.@Angelus: the British Empire's brutality towards its colonies was something to behold, and yet India, the crown jewel of the colonies managed to gain its independence on terms that were relatively non-violent, and they did so through acts of civil disobedience that were harmful to the British economic interests rather than through rising up in rebellion.
edited 5th Feb '17 1:26:49 PM by CaptainCapsase
Is it wrong for me to think that the PC crowd has essentially become the 'Moral Majority' of the Modern Era? And I don't mean the Organization by the name, I mean they've basically taken over the role of "People who will protest things that are Anti-X". That's not necessarily a bad thing, and I'm not against Protesting for any reason at all (especially the good reasons of Protesting Neo-Nazi's), I'm just pointing out something I'm seeing.
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The British Empire let India go for main two reasons, one they weren't in position to control their colonies anymore and two their own people were questioning the need for the colonies.
Gandhi himself stated his non-resistance and peaceful tactics wouldn't surely work in Nazi Germany, besides, Mid 20th Century the British Empire wasn't that willing to slaughter protesters and independence movements like they were in the 19th Century. The British were not willing to use excessive of force to quell the protesters. Arrests and intimidation they were willing to use but sending the troops and shoot everyone who resist they were not.
Compare it to Angola that had the Portuguese retaliating the civil disobedience movements with military strikes after one got violent, which resulted the independence of Angola being decided with a war instead of civil protests.
Wanna bet some far right idiot will try a false flag after that or the administration will claim the next spree killer in the US is a Muslim before gathering any evidence?
On the Super Bowl ad:
For a group of people who love to complain about trigger warnings, the Trumpets look triggered as fuck.
edited 5th Feb '17 1:48:03 PM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
Yes, but we aren't dealing with a regime that has the total loyalty of the military police, and civil service. The Trump administration has, at best, a very tenuous hold on power, and Trump's inner circle is facing almost open opposition from his own foreign policy appointees over his most dramatic use of executive power. Widespread violence against authorities in this situation would only push them into Trump's camp out of self preservation.
edited 5th Feb '17 1:54:59 PM by CaptainCapsase
@Cap and @Angelus: My sense of the situation is that the current US situation is closer to India (and the original Civil Rights marches here) than China/North Korea/Nazi Germany. That could change but until it does, nonviolent is the preferred way to go. We have a still-mostly independent and sympathetic media, there are fence-sitters and non-reactionary Republicans and Libertarians who might yet be convinced but will certainly not be if violence is the first response, we have civil servants and military officers who either quietly or openly resisting or questioning the dictates from the White House. Nonviolent resistance seeks to work on hearts and minds as much as anything else.
Well, you do not need to go abroad to find violent repression. In the time of the Redeemers
, voters were disenfranchised and one-party rule established over the South with a terror campaign where no one incident quite equaled the work of Nazi Germany but they cowed dissidents well enough and did so for much longer.
The 13-15th amendments existed then too and were reduced to dead letters by a federal government looking the other way and states actively collaborating in the repression. And the legacy of the "Redemption" in the late 19th century has yet to dissipate today.
Meanwhile, it took the postwar radicalization and PR needs during the Cold War for civil rights movements to gain steam and sway the public at large. Neither condition applies currently.
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Though this is true now)..
I would be wary of assuming the traditional rules apply...
edited 5th Feb '17 2:20:03 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives@IF Wanderer: I would define "Hate Speech" as : "...speech which the speaker could reasonably know would lead to violence against a vulnerable population"
As for Violent vs. Non-violent protest: For protest to be successful, it only has to convince a plurality of voters to vote in a manner consistent with the aims of the movement. To be extremely blunt about it, the deaths of even large numbers of peaceful protesters, while tragic, can be considered politically successful if a plurality of voters are so offended by it that they vote in the opposition as a backlash. Dying isnt failure, alienating voters is. That is why the Trump Regime is extremely unlikely to go full military on peaceful protesters.
But violent protesters are another issue...
edited 5th Feb '17 2:33:29 PM by DeMarquis
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.I have my reservations about how long the protests will remain peaceful. I am not afraid of the US government turning violent, I am much more worried with Trump's Brown Shirts becoming violent and Trump refusing to allow the other federal institutions to deal with them.
After that crazy idiot "investigating"the pizzagate at gun point, the shooting at Berkeley, the Mosque shooting in Canada. I have very little doubt that when I see some Trump supporters saying that one of them should get a rifle and shoot the protesters, it is a matter of time until someone actually do that.
Among the rabid pro-Trump websites there is enough talk for an armed revolution against people who aren't in favor of Trump, forming right wing death squads and making groups that don't look very different from those Afrikaner militias in Apartheid South Africa.
The possibility of It Cant Happen Here becoming Harsher in Hindsight is very scary.
Inter arma enim silent legesIf violence happens between two groups of protesters, the police will be required to intervene. They're not allowed to just not respond to gunshots if someone does get the bright idea to shoot into a crowd, and they're not trained to ignore that sort of thing. And the president can't really order (nor would he have the time if the police are responding to an immediate situation) the police not to respond to an attack in a crowded area. What will happen in such a scenario is anyone's guess, but it takes some pretty extreme circumstances to warrant calling in other forces like the National Guard rather than just more police.
Am I the only one here who feels like history is going to repeat itself within an few months? Because if you have people protesting for their rights and an certain race is (slowly) killed and punished, what do you think will happen?
Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to breakA clean sweep for the Democrats in 2018. Frankly, its not as important to avoid violence as it is not to be the one blamed for it. This is going to sound harsh, but- let them shoot us. We can mourn all the way into office.
edited 5th Feb '17 4:11:18 PM by DeMarquis
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.Rabid, I once again redirect everyone's attention to the Civil Rights movement. It's the closest mirror we have to the current political environment, and everyone seems to want to jump way further back than that. That's the history that's going to repeat, I think, and it was hard and long and it did get pretty violent. But the principle of peaceful protest was applied pretty damn well during that era, and we came out of that situation better.
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Exactly, peaceful protests are the rope by which either Trump or his supporters will hang themselves, because they will eventually either unleash violence upon us or crumble anyway. If they crumble we've won, if they unleash violence than we may well be able to ride their violence to electoral victory.
Still the Black Block can stay in reserve if they actually want to help, because when Trump's people do turn violent I have no problem with the Black Block coming out in force to shut them down.
Let them fire the first shot, we shall fire the last. Previous generations gave their lives to fight fascism, now it's likely to be our turn.
edited 5th Feb '17 4:40:32 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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I'm guessing he'll try that and end up in sinking in a flood of StealthInsults. Something like "yeah, I've got to admit that out of our presidents, Trump's been the best at undermining our democracy and institutions, you've got to wonder how he signs so many Executive Orders with his tiny hands".
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV