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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172576: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:14:36 PM

The first sentance in that Slate link is actually a disclaimer and link to a correction article that the claim was based on bad research. (The original was apparently taken from a North Carolina newspaper op-ed.) But what happened in the state is still pretty damn bad.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172577: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:15:24 PM

Have Three other sources for the same story, then- with the understanding that I chose them because they were the first three google results for 'North Carolina Democracy'.

But the point in bringing it up was as a counterpoint to the idea that the American democracy was strong enough to resist all potential threats.

edited 4th Feb '17 8:16:47 PM by Gilphon

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172578: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:24:22 PM

Here's the follow-up article in case anyone wants to see it. Basically, the EPI isn't THAT reliable. North Korea actually scored more than 50 on most measures, and we all know that the country is openly a dictatorship.

Beyond any specific examples though, assuming that the US's democracy will hold "just because" is essentially just another form of american exceptionalism, which has been well-established as bullshit.

edited 4th Feb '17 8:29:00 PM by Draghinazzo

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#172579: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:30:40 PM

Erm, that has nothing to do with the current political establishment- all sources say that it was caused by a growing distrust in governmental figures and organizations. That's the people.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#172580: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:31:06 PM

Goddamnit, now It's Personal! My cousin's Visa just got rejected from Australia as a result of Trump picking a fight with them! He's a famous skateboarder, and there's a huge skateboarding competition that he's supposed to be competing in!

edited 4th Feb '17 8:32:41 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172581: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:34:47 PM

[up][up]And I'm sure that a certain someone with an enormous platform repeatedly implying the election was going to be rigged had absolutely nothing to do with that.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#172582: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:34:56 PM

Australians need visas to visit the US?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#172583: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:39:35 PM

Yes? Everyone needs a visa.

Oh really when?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#172584: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:39:52 PM

[up][up]Other way around.

edited 4th Feb '17 8:40:48 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172585: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:40:01 PM

Trump is STILL saying the election was rigged, claiming millions of illegal immigrants led to the popular vote being what it is, based on absolutely nothing.

This is coming from the President of the United States, who is basically throwing a temper tantrum even AFTER winning.

Those kind of statements lead to a very negative climate that is easily manipulated by politicians who want to rig a system to ensure they win indefinitely.

Also, remember that multiple intelligence agencies reported strong evidence of Russia hacking both parties in order to obtain compromising information to sway the election. We have no evidence that they hacked voting machines or anything, but I do not think that a country interfering in an election to advance their geopolitical interests is anything but a perversion of democracy.

edited 4th Feb '17 8:47:16 PM by Draghinazzo

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#172586: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:42:18 PM

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant a vacation-like thing.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#172587: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:45:33 PM

He lives in America (most of the time) and his Visa was rejected by Australia.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#172588: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:48:34 PM

Erm, that has nothing to do with the current political establishment- all sources say that it was caused by a growing distrust in governmental figures and organizations. That's the people.
That kind of thing doesn't just happen. The US populace trusted its government on average before Vietnam and Watergate, and Eric Hoffer, (writing just after WWII, figured that the USA was impervious to mass movements because of the collective ego of its citizenry).
Then, last November, a good chunk of the populace voted in a conman, who ran on destroying the government and painted the country as "American Carnage" to lead them forward to a past that never existed.

note  Things change and democracy, unlike stone, is neither natural nor immutable.
Tis especially vulnerable with a president who lacks shame and a foundation (free and fair elections, educated and involved citizenry, equality before the laws, freedom of choice, economic autonomy) that's long eroded.

edited 4th Feb '17 8:51:52 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#172589: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:51:55 PM

I'm going to call citation needed on Australia specifically rejecting American visas as part of a tit-for-tat squabble with Trump. Individual anecdotes aren't evidence, as we all ought to know.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#172590: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:52:58 PM

@Justhelping: I agree with you. The people who grow to distrust in governmental figures and organizations are the ones that vote for Trump. They are the ones that are at fault. Trump is the effect of the disease. They are the disease.

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#172591: Feb 4th 2017 at 8:54:29 PM

Saying Trump can't destroy democracy because "America is better than that" is exactly the kind of complacency that landed us with him in the first place. His election was a grand demonstration of American mediocrity and our very real fallibility. Having checks and balances to protect democracy is meaningless in the face of the apotheosis of all of our worst inclinations, unless we fight for democracy.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172592: Feb 4th 2017 at 9:00:19 PM

Trump wont destroy democracy in Americe because we wont let him.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#172593: Feb 4th 2017 at 9:02:47 PM

It's that time of the week again. Where I wake up from a nap pissed the fuck off.

As far as I'm concerned,Hillary was betrayed. She might have made some mistakes (as all politicians do), but honestly on the list of a thousand things that went wrong, I put her near the bottom.

New Survey coming this weekend!
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#172594: Feb 4th 2017 at 9:07:59 PM

Anyone watching Saturday Night Live tonight? They're really hitting the political parodies hard. I especially love whoever caricatured Sean Spicer.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#172595: Feb 4th 2017 at 9:25:05 PM

[up] Not watching atm, but that's hopefully what I'm talking about when I said the simplest way to trip up Trump is to just go full I Shall Taunt You on him.

Gault Laugh and grow dank! from beyond the kingdom Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: P.S. I love you
Laugh and grow dank!
#172596: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:23:11 PM

A relative recently linked me to this article: "In Support of the Anti-Milo Berkeley Antifa Action"

I've been mulling it over. Would like to hear the perspectives people in this thread have towards it.

yey
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#172597: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:30:58 PM

They deliberately started a fire and set off flares in the middle of a goddamn crowd; all actions which put the surrounding people in fucking danger. Those dudes were assholes who cared more about making noise than the safety of the people around them. They are also the weapon that can be used against peaceful protesters everywhere to paint them as "whiners" and "thugs" and generally "Un American".

They are also the kind of people who can make police action against protesters truly necessary, and it is never a good idea to get the police ready to bring physical action against you. If they bring the shit to you, that's one thing, but the antifas in this situation to the fight to them.

Putting yourself down in the fucking mud where the bigots want you is never a tactically sound decision. Violent action isn't "speaking out". It's doing the enemy's job for them.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172598: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:39:56 PM

My view is that what they was better than letting the Fascists get away with their garbage, but it's regrettable that came to violence, and I'm not certain it was necessary.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#172599: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:43:25 PM

Melissa Mc Carthy was the one who portrayed Spicer on SNL.

Protestors shouldn't act like thugs. It's one of the things I'm afraid of, because it makes all protestors look bad.

edited 4th Feb '17 10:48:19 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#172600: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:49:17 PM

Considering that it was an entirely peaceful protest and that these antifas were the ones that brought the violence themselves, it was entirely unfuckingnecessary. Setting off flares and setting shit on fire is not the go to solution for dealing with fascists. Fascists want the left to make themselves look bad: it helps them look more legitimate. Especially someone like Milo Yiannopolous, who was the guy who was speaking and who isn't a fascist so much as a jackass troll who does what he does simply because it pisses people off and gets him attention.

Peaceful protest requires peace. And putting people in danger is never a good thing.


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