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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172326: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:01:18 PM

[up][up][up] I don't really think there was much of a disagreement though, just a misunderstanding? It seems like you were talking about a different thing entirely compared to the rest of the thread and we were more or less on the same page once you actually explained what you were talking about.

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:05:35 PM by Draghinazzo

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#172327: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:16:31 PM

I fully support gay marriage- I don't support forcing pastors to officiate such weddings in the name of "tolerance" when it goes directly against their belief.

Neither does anybody else. Seriously, are you under the impression that this is a thing that happens?

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#172328: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:17:01 PM

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:17:20 PM by justhelping

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#172329: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:24:55 PM

So, more Trump news:

Trump Embraces Pillars of Obama’s Foreign Policy: "...President Trump, after promising a radical break with the foreign policy of Barack Obama, is embracing key pillars of the former administration’s strategy, including warning Israel to curb construction of settlements, demanding that Russia withdraw from Crimea and threatening Iran with sanctions for ballistic missile tests."

Trump warns Israel that new settlements ‘may not help’ achieve Middle East peace

Black is White! Night is day! Left is Right! Bizarro World!

REPORT: Voter Fraud Investigation ‘No Longer a Top Priority’ for President Trump. What a shocking surprise.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#172331: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:25:44 PM

I also generally oppose forcing religious leaders to go against their spiritual definition of marriage in favour of one handed down by the state.

It's part of why the gay marriage ban angered me so, because it forced a Southern Baptist definition of marriage upon everyone.

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:27:09 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#172332: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:27:27 PM

I'm given to understand that Episcopalians are in favor of gay marriage.

Probably other denominations, not all that personally familiar with the ins and outs of Christianity.

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:29:03 PM by unnoun

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172333: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:29:40 PM

[up][up][up] That's why we were talking about it, actually.tongue

[up][up] There are plenty of Sects in Christianity that approve of, and perform, Gay Marriages. There are also numerous Jewish Sects that do so as well.

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:34:38 PM by DingoWalley1

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#172334: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:32:41 PM

Gay marriage is not about forcing anybody to do anything against their will or beliefs. If a priest or a minister won't officiate the wedding, there are plenty of other options: judge, justice of the peace, ship's captain...

edited 2nd Feb '17 7:36:54 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#172335: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:34:37 PM

I keep clear of religion on general principles - I have enough on my plate as it is.

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#172336: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:43:45 PM

The issue here is that Justhelping seems to be making assumptions of our positions that those of us in this thread, at least, don't actually hold. And pointing out that we don't hold a particular belief, or pointing out how said assumption is wrong shouldn't scare someone off. Not like anyone got aggressive with them; this was quite gentle and mostly agreement with the position of not forcing a church to do something, while pointing out that's not something any of us were arguing for and is not really the point of arguing for equal rights for LGBT folks.

If this is what makes said poster leave, then political discussion does not seem to be for them. But no one here actually wants justhelping to leave.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172337: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:45:22 PM

And the other half of the coin here is that marriage carries a lot of implicit legal rights: custody of children, tax filing laws, inheritance laws, etc. When people are talking about rights associated with marriage, those are the ones that have legal weight and demand equal protection under the law, above and beyond the basic decency of people loving whom they wish.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172338: Feb 2nd 2017 at 7:58:46 PM

The rush to repeal Obamacare has stalled

Factors: Trump chaos, AARP lobbying, realization that lack of a replacement is not politically feasible, delay in confirming Tom Price as health secretary..

Insurance companies are agitating for concrete commitments though. Many of them may pull out of the marketplace in the spring if they can't get commitments and/or the Trump admin doesn't enforce the individual mandate. Also, repeal requires Democrat votes in the senate (it takes 60) and the Dems won't vote for it without a replacement plan.

edited 2nd Feb '17 8:01:02 PM by Elle

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172339: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:02:24 PM

[up] That's a good thing. Many Conservative Republicans will think Congressional Republicans couldn't get the job done, and will either try to get radicals to replace them in the Primaries, or not vote, guarenteeing a(t least a) House swap.

Of course, this is only 2 weeks into this new Congress. Who knows what a Year and 2 weeks will be. But I'm not expecting anything to really change with this Congress.

Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland Since: Nov, 2010
Overlording the Underworld
#172340: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:09:52 PM

Sorry I've been inactive here. I've been dealing with computer upgrade stuff. To the one who was asking about doing that yesterday, now's the time to buy just in case Trump does ram through a tariff.

With the reps starting to stall out and wander aimlessly it's really starting to look like things MIGHT not be so bad. Hard to say yet, seeing as it hasn't even been a month. We have to keep fighting. I'll admit this computer stuff and my own emotional issues (I think my quicksilver moods might be undiagnosed bipolar disorder) have me not talking very much about Net Neutrality in person. Not actually sure of what dangers will actually rear their heads if we lose that. We'd be OPEN to our enemies stifling websites like ours en mass, but that doesn't mean it would happen. We'll just have to wait and see.

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#172341: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:14:35 PM

Any use by NK of nuclear weapons will get 'overwhleming' response

No way!

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#172342: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:15:54 PM

I'm given to understand that Episcopalians are in favor of gay marriage.

Isn't Trump's Supreme Court pick Episcopalian? What are his thoughts on gay marriage?

Oh God! Natural light!
HextarVigar That guy from The Big House Since: Feb, 2015
That guy
#172343: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:24:59 PM

[up][up]North Korea is basically a comedy act.

Your momma's so dumb she thinks oral sex means talking dirty.
higherbrainpattern Since: Apr, 2012
#172344: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:30:04 PM

[up][up] He's basically Scalia 2.0, so he probably compares gay people to pedophiles or animals.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#172345: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:31:37 PM

That would be...unpleasant, yes.

Are there any actual sources on his views there, though?

Oh God! Natural light!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#172346: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:39:26 PM

North Korea is basically a comedy act.

So's Trump honestly. Larry the Cable Guy with nukes.

edited 2nd Feb '17 8:40:00 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172347: Feb 2nd 2017 at 8:41:17 PM

He has some history of letting "religious freedom" translate as "businesses can screw over people based on the religious beliefs of their owners" but I haven't seen anything regarding LGBT rights directly.

If we are assuming he's basically similar to Scalia, Scalia was one of the dissenting judges in the Obergefell v. Hodges decision that cemented the legality of gay marriage , basically arguing that the 14th amendment defense (equal protection) did not apply to the case because originalisim.

edited 2nd Feb '17 8:56:18 PM by Elle

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#172348: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:05:36 PM

@pweigle: Actually, as I understand it, that last one is a myth - captains of ships don't have any power to perform the legal side of a wedding.


But more seriously, the only people who could be compelled to marry gay couples against their religious convictions are government officials (I don't know off the top of my head which offices actually issue marriage licenses), not pastors, and that is because the various government offices involved have a duty to issue forms and licenses to those who qualify and pay whatever fees are required, regardless of the officeholder's views. Their duty as the holder of that office comes before their views.

Basically, there is a compulsion to perform the secular aspect of marriage (the part that's a legal document that confers all manner of joint rights and such), but nobody is asking to compel people to perform the spiritual part of a marriage (the part that's usually in a church or other house of worship, overseen by some manner of pastor, and often done in nice clothes that are often purchased to be used specifically in that ceremony).

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#172349: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:11:33 PM

It should also be noted that the religious ceremony of marriage is a pure formality. You are married in the eyes of the law when you get the license, not when you say "I do" in front of a priest.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#172350: Feb 2nd 2017 at 9:55:11 PM

I mean, none of the amendments were actually written with the constitution itself, and the 14th definitely wasn't in the Bill of Rights, so I don't even know what originalism has to do with anything.


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