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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172276: Feb 2nd 2017 at 4:56:04 PM

I'm not super informed but as far as the immediate concerns go, sessions would do more immediate short-term harm because he would be garbage for civil rights, including the same kind of voter suppression that will be instrumental in the GOP's strategy of keeping itself in power. Devos on the other hand might do a lot of long-term damage in terms of education which would bite the US back in the ass at a later point.

Really is a Sadistic Choice.

edited 2nd Feb '17 4:57:05 PM by Draghinazzo

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172277: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:09:47 PM

@tactical: If I had to pick one person to stop, Sessions hands down. The states have a lot of control over education and at least some of them would resist terrible influence at the federal level. Sessions would be more directly a weapon in Donald and Bannon's pocket in the fight between the executive and the judiciary and the Atourney General is the one in charge of procecuting cases by and against the government.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#172278: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:13:05 PM

Apparently in the UN today Haley openly demanded the Russians return Crimea to Ukraine (fat chance at that) and levied some threats over their involvement in the latter country. Left hand and right hand aren't on speaking terms, s'pose?

edited 2nd Feb '17 5:15:18 PM by carbon-mantis

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172279: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:18:52 PM

[up] Sounds like it; because not only is this Administration angering most of our Traditional Allies, but now it's also pissing off the only potential Ally we could gain from this stupid Administration!

The only Ally we'll end up having by the end of it is Israel, and I wouldn't be surprised if they saw us as a liability by that time!

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#172280: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:22:33 PM

Other possability: false bravado to cover for recent news.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172281: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:25:23 PM

Trey Parker and Matt Stone (Creators of South Park) think it's too hard to satirize Trump. This Administration is so good at making their own comedy, Matt and Trey can't really make fun of them.

Freakin' fantastic.

edited 2nd Feb '17 5:25:39 PM by DingoWalley1

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#172282: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:28:15 PM

I wonder if we'd be able to restore our relations with our allies after he's gone.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
RisingStar Since: Nov, 2016
#172283: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:34:28 PM

Continuing to be glad I never watched South Park. Wonder if they're at all aware that this is probably, in large part, something they're responsible for.

I'm also hanging on hope and relief that the DeVos vote hasn't actually happened yet - when I called the office yesterday, the receptionist told me she'd already been confirmed. I'm hoping that he was just confused about which vote (this Senator was on the initial vetting committee, and I'm glad to say she grilled DeVos to char and then voted against her then, too) and not actively handing out misinformation. It was pretty easy to find out that it wasn't all over and done with.

edited 2nd Feb '17 5:36:01 PM by RisingStar

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#172284: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:35:45 PM

I mean, Obama did wonders after Bush strained the trans-Atlantic alliance. But if Trump tariffs Mexico/Canada into a depression, abandons East Asia to China, or tries to fuck up the EU? I'm not sure if America's allies would take them back if they begged for it. And Americans are terrible at apologizing for their country, when they do it at all.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#172285: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:51:24 PM

With an unstable wannabe dictator in charge, maybe other countries should consider temporarily revoking America's status on the war council at the UN as well as the council veto.

I mean, imagine for a moment for the sake of hypothesis that the US was actually ruled by Hitler, actual genuine Hitler.

The UN wants to sanction him for doing shit to Mexico.

All Hitler would need to do would be say "I veto", and that's that.

justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#172286: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:52:08 PM

Where do you guys go for completely objective reporting? it seems to pervade every single website and publication. On the left you've got moderate left-center bias with CNN, Washington Post, NYT, so on. There there's the worst offenders: Vox, Slate, Huffington Post, etc. (I considered Buzzfeed but that's not news) On the other side you've got things like FOX News, The Wall Street Journal, The Chicago Tribune, etc. And their worst of the worst- Breitbart, The Blaze, etc.

I just want neutrality in my news.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#172287: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:56:02 PM

For one thing, beware of the Golden Mean fallacy. Both sides do not always have a point, and its not always just two sides for that matter. You have to think about what your reading no matter where its from.

If you want distance though, there's the BBC. Wa Po has a good reputation for critical analysis. That's all I know.
[down]Also, what he said...

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:02:29 PM by CenturyEye

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172288: Feb 2nd 2017 at 5:58:29 PM

I think that's going to be part of the problem.

Someone, at some point, if/when Trump and the Republicans are no longer in power - is going to have to speak about some things that might make them very unpopular with the public, like acknowledging american exceptionalism for the sanctimonious crock it is, telling people that 50's america isn't coming back (and that it wasn't the basket of roses some people think they are), that blaming "the other" for their problem will never improve anything, etc.

If people insist on clinging to these illusions then nothing will change.

I just want neutrality in my news.

There is no such thing as completely objective news. There has never been. Literally every single news source has a "bias", because news are run by people, and people have opinions. The best you can really get is places that aren't super partisan and try to respect the integrity of journalism, and which try to live in a fact-based reality even if they have opinions. That's also why you should read multiple sources to get a more complete overview of what's going on. You mentioned some of the better, more respectable sources like The Washing Post and NYT. BBC is another reputable one.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:01:43 PM by Draghinazzo

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#172289: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:01:50 PM

@justhelping:

Washington Post, NPR, BBC, New York Times, AP, Reuters, CNN, and USA Today are the best available and essentially devoid of serious bias-if they seem tilted, that is an indictment of how warped the Overton Window has become with the GOP and Trump. Next level is ABC and NBC; anything else these days is usually noticeably slanted. Stick with those and what few people you trust on social media.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:03:07 PM by ViperMagnum357

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#172290: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:01:52 PM

Well, as much as we like to talk about being rational, logical thinkers there really isn't any human being or group free from bias.

But, I'm getting too philosophical. I think Reuters and the Associated Press are probably safe bets. For Canada, CBC tends to get a lot of flack, but despite some cries of "state-run propaganda" I see them as being fairly neutral in their actual reporting. note  Then again, I'm a dirty commie, so what do I know?

Well... I've just been ninja'd really badly.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:02:58 PM by Pseudopartition

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#172291: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:05:15 PM

[up][up][up] I mean, you can still believe in American Exceptionalism, you just have to adapt it to the modern ages. Yes, right now, it's stuck in the '50's Cold War mentality, and it's hurting America. But if you move it up to the 21st Century, then it'd do wonders for this nation. We could be exceptional with regards to Science, Technology, Opportunity, so on and so fourth, and in many respects we are (right now), but they're either downplayed or (worse) threatened by idiots and cowards. These are the things that should make America Exceptional; these things should be what Americans wave to the world when they wave the flag. But no, right now it's "Capitalism, Christianity and the Largest Military in the World".

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:05:30 PM by DingoWalley1

RisingStar Since: Nov, 2016
#172292: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:05:52 PM

If what you want is just to see straight up what's happening, there are places that are closer to the source. Sometimes you can go there directly - the national Congress puts the text of bills online so they can just be read as-is. (see https://www.congress.gov/bill-texts-received-today )

(grain of salt: direct press releases are not news. Just to be sure.)

(Also your daily reminder that, while there's a lot of screwiness going on at the federal level, a lot of the bill action goes on at the state level, so don't turn your eyes away from them.)

[down]I had a paragraph in this post that pretty much said stuff like this about the Golden Mean Fallacy, but I felt like it came off as way too detached-preachy, so just read this post instead. [awesome]

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:14:25 PM by RisingStar

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172293: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:08:24 PM

And yeah, there's the whole golden mean fallacy.

In most situations people tend to automatically assume there are two sides and that they can be "objective" and try to find a middle ground which must exist as both sides must have good points. We think this is more "realistic".

And well, sure that's more interesting to read about in a story of whatever, but real life doesn't just magically conform to that. It can sometimes, but assuming that it is the case every time is just foolish. Some people are completely unsalvageable assholes in every way that matters.

People believe in that fallacy so much that in an attempt to be "intellectual" and above-it-all, they act as if Trump is at worst a mildly unpleasant individual who people are objecting to because of some radicalized political belief.

And frankly I have very little patience for anyone who humors the possibility that the party of Trump has anything about it that is particularly defensible. This is the party who doesn't think my family deserves to have rights, that tries to undermine democracy to keep itself perpetually in power, who (based on "feels" and a cynical ploy to gain power) promotes anti-intellectualism and distrust of the scientific community who represents some of the best of America and humanity as a whole, who glorifies war but has no respect for the lives of the troops they pay lip service to, who ignores climate change in the name of short-sighted greed, etc,

I mean, you can still believe in American Exceptionalism, you just have to adapt it to the modern ages. Yes, right now, it's stuck in the '50's Cold War mentality, and it's hurting America. But if you move it up to the 21st Century, then it'd do wonders for this nation. We could be exceptional with regards to Science, Technology, Opportunity, so on and so fourth, and in many respects we are (right now), but they're either downplayed or (worse) threatened by idiots and cowards. These are the things that should make America Exceptional; these things should be what Americans wave to the world when they wave the flag. But no, right now it's "Capitalism, Christianity and the Largest Military in the World".

I understand what you mean, but my main problem with american exceptionalism is that I feel it fosters a mentality that America is great by default and anything it does can be justified because it's America. Rather than, as you say, America being great BECAUSE of what it does.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:22:28 PM by Draghinazzo

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#172294: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:21:18 PM

@Rising Star: Blaming South Park is laughable, honestly.

Watch Symphogear
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#172295: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:21:55 PM

Eh, they played no small role in the apathy that arguably cost us the election.

Oh really when?
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#172296: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:23:34 PM

I'm in a sort of position where I can at least understand many Republican arguments, even if I disagree with nearly all of them. The bigotry, corruption, short-sightedness, anti-intelletualism and various sneaky tricks are what prevents me from considering them viable options, especially with them folding into Trump's pocket.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:24:19 PM by LinkToTheFuture

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
justhelping Since: Dec, 2016
#172297: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:24:25 PM

I don't think there's a "golden mean" fallacy- there has to be two sides to an issue, no matter what it is. I feel like using that is just an attempt to delegitimize your opponent's side.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#172298: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:25:38 PM

When one side is genocide and the other is not genocide the answer is not a medium amount of genocide.

Every issue has two or more sides, yes. Not all of them are worth listening to. Or tolerating.

Oh really when?
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#172299: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:26:17 PM

@Le Garcon I don't feel like that's what happened.

What happened was the fact that much of the south park fanbase missed the point of their satire.

Even though Trey and Matt are libertarians, they make fun of them too. Hell, until Trump, they satire everything, thats the whole point of South Park.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:26:42 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#172300: Feb 2nd 2017 at 6:28:22 PM

I don't think there's a "golden mean" fallacy- there has to be two sides to an issue, no matter what it is. I feel like using that is just an attempt to delegitimize your opponent's side.

Sure, there are always multiple sides to any issue, not even just two. That doesn't automatically mean that every one of them has legitimacy to it.

Let's take an example.

"I am for LGBT rights because these people's right to marry or just exist really has no bearing on me personally".

VS

"I do not like these people simply for existing, or because they are against my religious beliefs. Let them burn".

One of these isn't worth listening to because they are inhumane. There can be more positions than this of course ("Personally I believe marriage is something that should be between a man and a woman, but we live in a secular state and I must respect the will of the people" - which is what Evan Mc Mullin's position is), but you get my point hopefully.

edited 2nd Feb '17 6:36:34 PM by Draghinazzo


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