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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16901: May 1st 2012 at 6:59:14 PM

Well, Freedom of Speech doesn't necessarily allow you to harass people, at least not as individuals. But yes, hate speech-so long as it doesn't actively promote violence-is protected speech.

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#16902: May 1st 2012 at 7:00:24 PM

Ive seen pictures of Nazis peacefully protesting in front of a statue of Lenin in Seatle.

And that is why I love America.

edited 1st May '12 7:00:37 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
ATC Was Aliroz the Confused from The Library of Kiev Since: Sep, 2011
Was Aliroz the Confused
#16903: May 1st 2012 at 7:00:58 PM

Unrestricted freedom of speech includes freedom of verbal abuse. It wouldn't be unrestricted freedom of speech if it didn't.

Words can kill and maim just as much as knives can, but everyone, from the vilest mass-murderer to the most innocent child, has the right to use words.

There are people you'd never trust with a weapon, why allow those same people to use the most powerful weapon of all to hurt people?

edited 1st May '12 7:01:35 PM by ATC

If you want any of my avatars, just Pm me I'd truly appreciate any avatar of a reptile sleeping in a Nice Hat Read Elmer Kelton books
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16904: May 1st 2012 at 7:01:02 PM

I endorse protecting that speech, sure.

ATC: From a legal standpoint, if not from a semantics standpoint, verbal abuse (well, harassment) is not protected speech. We as a country have made that distinction.

Not to mention laws against defamation and the like.

edited 1st May '12 7:02:06 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Baff Since: Jul, 2011
#16905: May 1st 2012 at 7:03:46 PM

[up][up]

Well... one thing is to express your opinion (freedom of speech).

Another things is calling someone non stop threatening him, having your boss constantly talk to you about sex, or being followed everywhere by a group of people who say you are going to hell.

As a rule of thumb, the problem you seem to have with this issue, is not the opinions themselves(freedom of speech) but the way in which said opinions are expressed (for which there are proper and unproper times and places).

In the end, the law cant really prevent people from abusing other people verbally if they do so in a proper manner.

edited 1st May '12 7:05:14 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#16906: May 1st 2012 at 7:05:53 PM

There are people you'd never trust with a weapon, why allow those same people to use the most powerful weapon of all to hurt people?

Because words are a right in America.

A right. You don't take away peoples rights, that's a key part of the definition of a word. That's why it's the bill of rights. They are inalienable things that you cannot take away.

Though I suppose it could be argued that barring felons from buying firearms is a violation of the second amendment.

Who gets to pick and choose what is considered protected and unprotected speech? There's a reason the definition can get hazy at times.

Anyway, rights aren't the topic.

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#16907: May 1st 2012 at 7:12:50 PM

Yeah, this kinda drifted in the last couple of pages.

I wonder how much humour Obama will insert into his campaign strategy. Obviously the president can't be a clown, but it will be an immense PR victory if he can convince independents that the Republican policies aren't worth taking seriously.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#16908: May 1st 2012 at 7:16:11 PM

And he is decent with humor. I like some of his more audacious jokes where the stick-up-the-ass political class kind of gasp when he says them.

Though by most standards he's still pretty tame.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#16909: May 1st 2012 at 7:17:34 PM

[up][up]To be fair there are plenty of Republicans who can do that and all Obama has to do is watch his mouth, put up his legs, drink a beer and do well in the debates. Not necessarily in that order.tongue

edited 1st May '12 7:17:45 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16910: May 1st 2012 at 7:17:53 PM

Anyway, back to the topic.

Obama needs to publish C-SPAN's recordings of the debate on the whole student loan issue.

Once again, Democrats want to close tax loopholes, Republicans want to defund Obamacare's preventive care plan.

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#16911: May 1st 2012 at 7:18:36 PM

Agreed.

And maybe light up a cigarette. Just because I want to watch another wave of whiny crying and screaming over a president who smokes.

Them whiners can stick it. Obama got a lot of street cred in my book when I learned he liked cowboy killers.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16912: May 1st 2012 at 7:21:47 PM

Voting is a right in America. You still have it taken away if you're a convicted felon.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16913: May 1st 2012 at 7:26:15 PM

[up]

Taking rights away from felons is completely constitutional as well. The constitution deliberately left a loophole saying rights cannot be taken away "without due process of law".

RadicalTaoist scratching at .8, just hopin' from the #GUniverse Since: Jan, 2001
scratching at .8, just hopin'
#16914: May 1st 2012 at 7:28:26 PM

[up][up][up][up] Is this a dishonest video editing by Fox News thing?

edited 1st May '12 7:28:36 PM by RadicalTaoist

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16915: May 1st 2012 at 7:29:30 PM

Right... but by the same token, you can deny people the right to speech via due process.

Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#16916: May 1st 2012 at 7:42:43 PM

@Radical Taoist: Republicans have offered a deal whereby the student loan interest rates are kept the same, but the Affordable Care Act is defunded. Not shitting you.

Club For Growth wants said student loan interest rates to double, at a time when student loan credit outnumbers credit card debt.

And lastyl, on a different note, republicans currently have no plans to offset the cost of the Bush Tax cuts. Ironic Nigh on hypocritical, considering what the article points out.

edited 1st May '12 7:43:07 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#16917: May 1st 2012 at 8:26:08 PM

[up]

Oh boy here we go. Another dick move by Republicans where Obama cannot win.

He lets the bill pass? It guts affordable care act.

He vetoes it? He's attacked for going against his whole student loan thing.

Maybe in some universe our politicians are actually working to improve our country instead of trying to just snipe each other.

edited 1st May '12 8:26:33 PM by Thorn14

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16918: May 1st 2012 at 8:29:57 PM

In an alternate universe where Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist were never born.

<Time travel thriller->

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#16919: May 1st 2012 at 8:58:12 PM

[up]That's a Red Alert mod waiting to happen... Wonder what the Republican variation of Hell March would be.

Does anyone think this issue with the blind Chinese dissident will get played up at all? Probably not, since anything more complex than "we bombed shit today" just goes over the public's head for some reason. Too bad considering how relevant American-Sino relations are in this day and age.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16920: May 1st 2012 at 10:05:07 PM

[up]

I care. The Colbert Report covered it. But who knows how this will go since the U.S. owes China a fuckton of money.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16921: May 1st 2012 at 10:06:30 PM

China is the largest owner of our foreign debt, but even then it's not anywhere near as much as people make it out to be.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16922: May 1st 2012 at 10:23:38 PM

[up]

Even though our National Debt is over $15 trillion, you are right. Most of it is with us (in the hands of the 1%).

However, 1 trillion owed to China is still a lot of money.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16923: May 1st 2012 at 10:24:58 PM

Sort of. In terms of real impact it has on our policy, it's really not.

Skatepunk Since: Feb, 2011
#16924: May 1st 2012 at 10:32:25 PM

I still don't get why the "Party of Fiscal Responsibility" is dead-set against closing tax loopholes. It's not even a tax raise! It's a way for people to pay the taxes they are supposed to pay in the first place.

You know what? Let's not stop at closing loopholes. I say we repeal the tax code altogether and start from scratch. Flat income tax based on income level. Nothing more, nothing less. We will worry about exemptions later.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#16925: May 1st 2012 at 10:37:45 PM

With Republicans having as much power as they do, a total nuke and pave of the tax code would end up radically reducing the tax base and increasing income inequality.

Think 999. I mean, what did you THINK 999 was?


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