TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164676: Dec 29th 2016 at 5:12:51 PM

That sounds about right. Everything I know of Ryan makes me consider him a weasel at best, a snake at worst - he's not to be trusted. If he's supporting this now, it's because he's working some sort of angle.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#164677: Dec 29th 2016 at 5:16:44 PM

@Beary Scary

I do think that if Dems leaned more to the left (which I would consider to be a progress), then more young voters would be attracted to the party and actively engaged in it. The only problem would be the apathy of older voters instead...

Life is unfair...
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164678: Dec 29th 2016 at 5:53:29 PM

Ah, bingo - Ryan's pulling a McConnell. He's projecting the appearance of concern and action over Russian meddling, when in fact he's just deferring to someone else who already made their lack of concern clear.

I knew he was bullshitting. His lips were moving.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#164679: Dec 29th 2016 at 8:39:48 PM

The only thing Paul Ryan really believes in is satisfying his Randian fantasies of slashing social safety nets like Medicare.

Disgusted, but not surprised
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#164680: Dec 29th 2016 at 11:19:45 PM

New California Law outlaws Spice.

So, then, is the government going to start hunting down a dashing rogue and a wookie? Because I am not sure how I feel about that.

edited 29th Dec '16 11:21:54 PM by NickTheSwing

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164681: Dec 29th 2016 at 11:32:23 PM

Nah, it just means the sandworms won't be as big of a problem.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#164683: Dec 30th 2016 at 1:25:47 AM

Re: [1]: Oh, another batch of Cali laws. Commenting on each item in the order in which it appears: Lessee how long we can break from The Trump Show:

  • At companies with 26 or more employees, the minimum wage will increase from $10 an hour to $10.50.: Tentatively OK, although my impression was that California is a very heterogeneous state and different parts may warrant different minimum wages.
  • Employers are prohibited from paying women less than male colleagues based on prior salary. Workers in “substantially similar” jobs but of different race or ethnicity will also need to be paid equal wages. : Good.
  • Employers won’t be allowed to ask a job applicant to disclose information about an arrest, detention or court case — if it happened while the person was younger than 18. : Good.
  • "Children younger than 2 must sit in rear-facing car seats." Not a car driver, so no idea.
  • Those convicted of driving under the influence must install a device in their cars that would ensure they are sober before they can start the ignition. : There is a device to tell people they are too drunk to drive?
  • The state’s ban on texting while driving expands to include other distractions, such as searching for “Pokemon Go” characters.: OK.
  • Once a gray area for motorcyclists, new rules will be established by the California Highway Patrol for how fast they can drive when riding between cars along the lane line. : OK, I guess.
  • Companies including Uber and Lyft can no longer hire drivers who are registered sex offenders, have been convicted of violent felonies or have had a DUI conviction within the last seven years. : Sorry, but unless someone convinces me of the contrary, I am going to assume that California's sex offender registry is just as overboard as the ones I've seen in other states. Oppose.
  • Drivers for companies like Uber and Lyft can’t have a blood alcohol content of 0.04% or more. : OK, I guess.
  • Charter bus drivers must provide written or video instructions to passengers on how to use the vehicle's safety equipment and emergency exits.: OK, I guess.
  • School districts must improve bus driver training to avoid students being left alone on buses and must notify the Department of Motor Vehicles if students are left behind.: I think there is some backstory here; did some incident happen over this?
  • There will be new protections against foreclosure for surviving spouses who own their home but are not listed on the mortgage.: OK, I guess.
  • A program providing electric-car rebates will now only be available to those making $150,000 a year or less. : OK, I guess. One of these things where social justice may interfere with the effectiveness, though.
  • To help the state’s housing crisis, it will be easier for California homeowners to construct additional small units on their properties, whether in their garages or as freestanding second structures.: Somehow I don't think that will help much.
  • The cost for lead-acid batteries like those used to start cars and trucks will increase to help pay for cleaning up contaminated sites like the former Exide battery plant in Los Angeles County. Consumers will see the new $1 fee starting in April. : OK.
  • Inspired by the sexual assault allegations against comedian Bill Cosby, California eliminated statutes of limitations for rape and some other sex crimes. That means if a crime happens after Dec. 31, 2016, the victim can report it at any point in the future and see it prosecuted; previous law generally limited prosecution to within 10 years.: Good, with the caveat about overbroad sex laws though.
  • In response to outrage over the six-month sentence for sexual assault given to former Stanford student Brock Turner, prison time will be mandatory for those convicted of assault in which the victim was unconscious or not capable of giving consent because of intoxication. : That should have been done a long time ago. Good, though.
  • County prosecutors can pursue felony charges against people caught with the most common date-rape drugs and who also have demonstrated the intent to commit a sexual assault. : That wasn't a law yet? Huh. Anyhow, good.
  • Convicted sex offenders involved in Internet-related crimes must report their email addresses, user names and other Internet identifiers to police. : Given how overbroad such things tend to be, I am going to oppose unless convinced that the definition of "sex offender" is not the same joke that it is elsewhere.
  • It will be tougher for law enforcement to seize someone’s cash, cars or property. A criminal conviction is now required before the police can permanently take from a suspect any assets valued under $40,000. : I've read some horror stories about the abuses that police commit with such actions in other states. Good.
  • A ban is imposed on publishing the addresses of domestic violence victims: Not an expert on such matters; is this a good move?
  • A ban is in place on possession of a synthetic drug called “spice.” The first offense would be an infraction; the second or third offense would be a misdemeanor. What kind of spice are we talking about?
  • Children can no longer be charged with prostitution, given the high incidence of human trafficking of people younger than 18. Adults who perform or solicit prostitution would not face mandatory minimum sentences.: I think I already commented on this item.
  • It is now a crime to use ransomware, malware or intrusive software injected into a computer or network to hold data hostage until money is paid.: Overdue. OK.
  • Public schools can now expel students for bullying through video or sexting. State education officials will be required to publish information on sexual cyberbullying online and encourage schools to teach students about sexting.: Good on all these things. Especially the last one. Whether it's worth going a bit further like Vermont does (if memory serves, they also legalized the practice under particular circumstances) is a tough question.
  • People will no longer be able to buy semi-automatic rifles that have a bullet button allowing removal of the ammunition magazine, commonly used in mass shootings. Those that have such weapons will have to register them with the state. Any gun owner who can comment on this? My sense is that these things are not effective means.
  • People who falsely report a firearm is lost or stolen would face a misdemeanor charge, and would face a 10-year ban on owning a firearm upon conviction. Imma need an explanation of why this is being done.
  • Licenses to carry a concealed weapon will no longer vary from county to county. State justice department officials will create a uniform license. : Good move.
  • Law enforcement officers and concealed-weapon permit holders who leave firearms in cars are now required to lock them in a safe box or in the trunk. : Need a bit more explanation on this.
  • Bathrooms in public buildings with a single toilet must be designated as all-gender, open to anyone. The law will take effect March 1. : Good.
  • The state can’t fund or require public employees to travel to states believed to discriminate against lesbians, gays, bisexual or transgender people. OK.
  • Smoking or use of electronic cigarettes within 250 feet of any Little League baseball game or other youth sports event is now illegal.: Inclined to agree with Wikipedia on this that lawmakers are jumping the gun. Oppose.
  • Beauty salons and barbershops can now offer patrons a free beer or glass of wine. : One wonders why this was enacted.
  • Denim is now the state’s official fabric to recognize its role in California history. : Will need a history explanation on this.
  • Every autographed collectible sold in California must come with a certificate that verifies it's not a forgery, under a bill backed by famed “Star Wars” actor Mark Hamill. Huh?
  • Patients who go to their insurance’s in-network hospital, lab or other health facility will not face surprise, larger charges if the doctor or health worker treating them is not in the network. : OK, I guess.
  • California businesses and public agencies are authorized to have on hand medicine designed to combat severe, emergency allergic reactions. : They weren't permitted beforehand?
  • Women can pick up an entire year's worth of birth control pills at once, and health plans must cover the cost. : OK.
  • To counter a spike in opioid overdose deaths, prescribers must check a state database to see whether their patients also have received drugs from other physicians. : OK.
  • Terminally ill Californians will have the “right to try” experimental drugs that do not yet have full federal approval for clinical trials.: Good.
  • Want to save an animal trapped in a car in heat or cold? As long as you call authorities first, you won’t be held legally liable for breaking into the car.: I recall seeing signs in Switzerland cautioning pet keepers against leaving their pets in cars. Good.
  • Dog kennels and pet hotels must check on animals once a day and provide elevated platforms in cat enclosures.: Good.
  • A dog seized from criminal fighting rings will no longer automatically be labeled “vicious” — which leads to it being euthanized. Instead, each dog will be evaluated to see whether it can be rehabilitated to safely re-enter society or be placed in a sanctuary. : Good.
  • Carbon monoxide gas chambers are banned in animal shelters for euthanizing animals.: Wonder what they'll use instead.
  • Orca breeding and performance programs, like the one formerly run by Sea World theme parks, will be outlawed starting in June.: I recall hearing some debates in Switzerland about this. No opinion.
  • Felons serving sentences in county jails will be able to vote in California elections as part of an effort to speed their transition back into society.: If memory serves, only Maine and Vermont allow people in jail to vote, perhaps this has now changed. This sounds a bit narrower than full voting rights, but might not be.
  • Voters can now legally take a selfie with their completed ballot. : A bit silly, but OK.
  • Voters are permitted to legally hand off their sealed ballot to anyone to mail or deliver in person.: Seems like some technical stuff. Not sure.
  • More cities and counties can offer public financing of political campaigns. : Sadly, these things have had a difficult stand in federal courts for a while.
  • City councils and county boards of supervisors are required to publicly announce pay and benefit increases for government executives before they are approved by a vote. : A bit of useless populism if you ask me.

edited 30th Dec '16 1:29:01 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#164684: Dec 30th 2016 at 3:18:38 AM

Orca breeding and performance programs, like the one formerly run by Sea World theme parks, will be outlawed starting in June.: I recall hearing some debates in Switzerland about this. No opinion.

Their life expectancy in captivity is barely half of the LE of wild orcas, being around 30-40 years old. Wild orcas can live up to a hundred years.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#164685: Dec 30th 2016 at 3:48:47 AM

In response to outrage over the six-month sentence for sexual assault given to former Stanford student Brock Turner, prison time will be mandatory for those convicted of assault in which the victim was unconscious or not capable of giving consent because of intoxication. : That should have been done a long time ago. Good, though.

Prosecutors are going to look for ways to dodge this. Understand that in America, prosecutors hate mandatory sentencing because it screws with their ability to plea bargain, and so this law is likely to be bypassed before it ever gets to the judge.

People who falsely report a firearm is lost or stolen would face a misdemeanor charge, and would face a 10-year ban on owning a firearm upon conviction. Imma need an explanation of why this is being done.

Reporting the gun as "lost or stolen" when in fact it's been sold under the table. It's an attempt to cut down on straw purchasing if I'm reading it right. (It's very hard to prove an illegal firearm sale over here, so this is an attempt to ban a corollary practice.)

Law enforcement officers and concealed-weapon permit holders who leave firearms in cars are now required to lock them in a safe box or in the trunk. : Need a bit more explanation on this.

It's now illegal to leave a gun on your car seat while you go shopping.

California businesses and public agencies are authorized to have on hand medicine designed to combat severe, emergency allergic reactions. : They weren't permitted beforehand?

Some such medicines are prescription-only, and drug-sharing laws in the US mean that giving someone a controlled substance to save their life will get you in hot water. (Remember, this is the US legal system. Even if you're innocent, you still have to hire a lawyer to prove it.)

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#164687: Dec 30th 2016 at 3:59:10 AM

Unfortunately, the Republicans are trapped up their own asses on clean technology and have to get in its way on general principles, especially if the private sector now supports it. And many business models for clean energy (such as home solar) require government intervention to function properly.

edited 30th Dec '16 4:00:36 AM by Ramidel

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#164688: Dec 30th 2016 at 4:23:05 AM

People will no longer be able to buy semi-automatic rifles that have a bullet button allowing removal of the ammunition magazine, commonly used in mass shootings. Those that have such weapons will have to register them with the state. Any gun owner who can comment on this? My sense is that these things are not effective means.

It is a blanket ban on any kind of semi automatic rifle that uses a detachable magazine which means nearly all of them, since most rifles use detachable magazines while very few semi auto rifles use fixed external magazines (like the SKS).

This one looks like a law that will be shot down at federal level. Besides, it doesn't do anything to handguns and shotguns, specially as the later is the most used gun in mass shootings and crime in general.

Anyway it is as stupid and as ineffective as banning guns with the shoulder thing that goes up in the AWB law.

edited 30th Dec '16 4:31:57 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#164690: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:20:26 AM

Cross posted from The Military Thread

Trump sees to privatize the VA Medical Care.

I'm sorry that bullet wound is a pre existing condition we're not obliged to treat it

Inter arma enim silent leges
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164692: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:23:37 AM

[up][up][up] Not exactly breaking - that story dropped yesterday, and I think at least part of it was already discussed here.

Although, a new update - Putin will not be expelling US diplomats in response. So most likely he's counting on the sanctions being rolled back by Trump once he takes office - and this also helps him cultivate a "Good Guy" image with the particularly gullible Americans.

And [nja]'d.

edited 30th Dec '16 5:24:00 AM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164693: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:25:17 AM

[up]Can't read thanks to paywall. You got an excerpt?

[up]Nevermind, thanks.

edited 30th Dec '16 5:25:44 AM by kkhohoho

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#164694: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:25:23 AM

Protip: You only need to copy whatever is behind the ? everything else are just tags.

From the same link you posted, like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/world/europe/russia-diplomats-us-hacking.html [up]

     The Article 

MOSCOW — In a head-spinning turn of events on Friday, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia announced that he would not retaliate against the United States’ expulsion of Russian diplomats and new sanctions — hours after his foreign minister recommended doing just that.

Mr. Putin, apparently betting on improved relations with the next American president, said he would not eject 35 diplomats or close any diplomatic facilities, a proposed tit-for-tat response to actions taken by the Obama administration a day earlier.

In an announcement on the Kremlin’s website, Mr. Putin said he did not want to deprive children of access to a recreational area on an island in the Moscow River that his foreign minister had recommended closing. He went one step further, inviting all children of American diplomats accredited in Russia to celebrate the New Year and the Russian Orthodox Christmas with him at the Kremlin. (Their parents are presumably welcome; no date was announced.)

The switch was remarkable, given that the foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, had just made the recommendation in remarks broadcast live nationwide, and given the long history of tit-for-tat expulsions between the two countries. Both the Soviet Union and the Russian Federation have traditionally been sticklers for diplomatic protocol. Continue reading the main story Russian Hacking in the U.S. Election Complete coverage of Russia’s campaign to disrupt the 2016 presidential election.

On Thursday, the Obama administration declared 35 Russians suspected of being intelligence operatives “persona non grata”; imposed sanctions on two of Russia’s leading intelligence services; and penalized four top officers of one of those services, the powerful military intelligence unit known as the G.R.U., because of its efforts to influence the presidential election.

As part of the punishment, the State Department said that it would close two waterfront estates — one in New York, the other in Maryland — that it said were used for Russian intelligence activities. It was not clear, however, whether the two properties were a base for the election-related hacking.

The actions amounted to the strongest American response yet to a state-sponsored cyberattack.

In retaliation, Mr. Lavrov recommended on Friday that 31 American diplomats be expelled from Moscow and four from St. Petersburg. He also recommended the closing of two facilities: a wooded picnic area on a Moscow island used by diplomats, as well as a warehouse in the southern, industrial part of the Russian capital.

It was not yet clear if there would be further measures, as the United States took a two-pronged approach involving expulsions as well as sanctions. But they seemed to be a relatively restrained response reflecting the overall mood in the Russian government — that the Kremlin would wait three weeks for the inauguration of Donald J. Trump and hope that relations might improve.

United States intelligence agencies have concluded that the G.R.U., with the approval of the Kremlin, ordered the attacks on the Democratic National Committee and other political organizations, and that the Russian government enabled the publication of the emails it obtained to benefit Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign.

While vowing that Mr. Putin would decide personally how to respond, his spokesman, Dmitry S. Peskov, said, “We proceed from the premise that these decisions were taken by President Obama, and that in three weeks Donald Trump will be the new head of state.”

Mr. Lavrov, in making his recommendations, said actions like those taken by the United States could not go unanswered.

“Of course, we cannot leave such mischievous tricks without a response,” he said. “Reciprocity is the law of diplomacy and of international relations.”

The Russian Foreign Ministry denied reports that Moscow was planning to close the Anglo-American School, which is heavily attended by the children of Western diplomats and wealthy Russians.

In addition to giving 35 Russian diplomats and their families 72 hours to leave the country, the measures announced by President Obama imposed sanctions on Russia’s two main intelligence services. Washington described the diplomats as intelligence agents working under the cover of diplomacy.

The administration also penalized four top officers from one of the highly secretive services, the G.R.U.

Previous sanctions by the United States and its Western allies were levied against broad sectors of the Russian economy and also blacklisted dozens of individuals, some of them close friends of Mr. Putin’s who were considered crucial in the annexation of Crimea in 2014 and in destabilizing Ukraine.

The economic sanctions covered three main areas, including blocking Russian access to international credit, cutting off cooperation in advance oil field technology and stopping arms deals or the sale of dual-use technology.

Much of their effect stemmed from the fact that they coincided with a sharp drop in global oil prices, hitting Russia with a double blow. Companies had trouble obtaining credit, driving up the short-term cost of borrowing and compounding a deep recession. Over the long run, the effect is likely to be strongest in the oil sector because it dried up most exploration in difficult areas like the Arctic.

Russia responded with sanctions of its own, mostly banning agricultural products and certain foods imported from the West. Mr. Putin and other officials have repeatedly crowed that this resulted in a successful campaign of “import substitution.”

Russia also maintained a secret list of Western officials who were no longer allowed into the country. Most, like the former American ambassador Michael Mc Faul, discovered it only when they applied for visas to Russia.

Even before the announcement of the latest Russian measures, Maria Zakharova, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, took to Facebook to denounce the Obama administration, although she spared Secretary of State John Kerry the bulk of her criticism.

Ms. Zakharova called the Obama administration “a group of a foreign policy losers, embittered and narrow-minded.”

“Today America, the American people, were humiliated by their own president,” she wrote.

There was no immediate response from the Obama administration. Elizabeth K. Trudeau, a spokeswoman for the State Department, said by phone from Washington that it was studying Mr. Lavrov’s statement and would respond later.

There is a long history of reciprocal expulsions and other measures between the United States and Russia, even after the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

While Mr. Obama framed the new American measures as a response to Russian hacking during the election, the expulsion of Russian diplomats from Washington and San Francisco was described as a response to continued harassment of American diplomats in Russia.

Mr. Peskov denied that any such harassment takes place, but American diplomats tell a different story. Many travel around Moscow in cars with red diplomatic license plates that start with 004, denoting United States Embassy vehicles. That makes them easy targets for traffic stops.

Embassy employees said they were tailed as they moved around the city, and that sometimes, when they were not at home, agents would enter and move the furniture around, just to show that they had been there.

Some find it unnerving, while others shrug it off as part of the job. One young father said he was just grateful that his children were too small to realize that the family was being followed.

The country house now barred to American diplomats is in Serebryany Bor, a small park located within the city limits and surrounded by the Moscow River. It boasts some of the best beaches in the city.

The area is popular with Russia’s wealthy elite as well as with ordinary Muscovites, who come to the park in droves in the summer. Serebryany means “silver pine forest.”

edited 30th Dec '16 5:27:01 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#164695: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:28:48 AM

~Ramidel: Huh. For some reason I was reading that law as classifying that kind of sexual assault as rape, not as a law applying mandatory minimums to it. I think the latter is much less of a good idea. Thanks for the other explanations as well.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#164696: Dec 30th 2016 at 5:54:59 AM

Those convicted of driving under the influence must install a device in their cars that would ensure they are sober before they can start the ignition. There is a device to tell people they are too drunk to drive?

Yes, it's called an Ignition Interlock Device. Basically, it's a breathalyzer hooked up to the car's ignition system. You have to blow into it before starting the car, and if you're over the limit, it won't start at all. They've been around for years, but only now are states making them mandatory for all DUIs, even first-time offenses.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#164697: Dec 30th 2016 at 6:41:01 AM

This will save more human lives than the entire NSA surveillance program.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#164698: Dec 30th 2016 at 6:48:35 AM

Um.

Who says the State Department is the only organisation with a severely-out-of-date server system?

EDIT: In which Trump Tower Mumbai somehow winds up shining a spotlight on inequality there. I'm reminded of the split between the Chiron Building and Derelict Row a few meters away...

edited 30th Dec '16 6:53:51 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#164699: Dec 30th 2016 at 6:59:25 AM

Holy shit

This is why photography is art.

Oh my god there cannot be a more perfect metaphor for Trumpism

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#164700: Dec 30th 2016 at 7:08:34 AM

Speaking of Trumpism, one impressive Quora rant on why New Yorkers despise Trump

Simple: we know him. We’ve watched his low-class act for too long. We scanned his soul with our hard-won schmuck radar and he’s failed—repeatedly.

One of the formative experiences of moving to New York is, or at least used to be, finding yourself prey for bad people with good lines of talk. The guy who tried and sell you dubiously authentic drugs in Washington Square park, the 3-card monte operators on 14th Street, the street-calloused sexual predators who flocked around the NYU dorms every September hoping to scam some dewy Iowa-born freshman girl into a blowjob—they are all part of New York’s venerable Ganef/Rube ecosystem. If you survive this hazing, you learn to profile every potential perp, con artist and time-waster as a human type: Homo Schmuckius or Homo Griftus respectively. In this schema, Trump is the human equivalent of those counterfeit Rolex watches they try and sell you on Canal Street: glitzy on the outside, cheap and defective on the inside.

Trump’s type is the gilded real estate developer. He’s the crass, money-obsessed but aesthetically oblivious type that makes even mobsters roll their eyes. I once heard a pair of Russian mob heavies in the Wall Street Banya say of this kind of operator, “that guy would drop a ceiling in the Sistine Chapel.” They were showing the contempt of thuggish hustlers for a guy who doesn’t know he’s a thuggish hustler, and doesn’t even know that there’s anything better to which a human being can aspire.

It’s Donald Trump’s lack of higher aspiration, or even pretension to higher things that depresses us so much. In a city that is essentially a shiv-shaped machine for turning base desire into big money, we’re no strangers to people who made fortunes in unseemly ways, but the alchemy of New York has also always been about transforming tawdry fortunes into high culture.

Those sublime Vermeers in the [industrialist, Henry Clay] Frick Museum? They were bought with the corpses of strikers at the Homestead Steel Works. That Venetian-themed mansion on Fifth Avenue? It was built on the proceeds of defective shoes tormenting the feet of Union soldiers at Gettysburg and Chickamauga. Claus Von Bulow had the distinction of seeing his name on the cover of the New York Post for his wife's murder AND on the marble plaque inside the Metropolitan Museum for his generous donations. The olympian Astors and their many gifts to high culture? Both sprung from the smelly, mercury-poisoned hides of a decimated beaver population. J.P. Morgan collected Gutenberg Bibles and rare manuscripts. The founders of the Metropolitan Opera included the Morgan, Roosevelt and Vanderbilt families. These people had the class to know that wealth which only showed itself in personal ease and garish display was ugly. Trump thinks ease and bling are all there is and that’s tacky—not just because it gilds third-rate products in ersatz gold, but because it devalues what it doesn’t understand.

That crass, blind devaluation is poised to attack the democratic institutions that wealthy men from our nation’s past had the good sense to value above their personal fortunes and even their lives. Trump, who fears and hates the idea that there’s anything better than his own venal image in the mirror is about to destroy what he can’t understand. And the rubes are applauding.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

Total posts: 417,856
Top