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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#164551: Dec 28th 2016 at 1:53:39 PM

Hillary did arm child soldiers?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164552: Dec 28th 2016 at 1:57:59 PM

We aren't at peace with the Russians, no reason to pretend we are at this point. A no fly zone can be worked out diplomatically with them anyway.

And how else should we respond to cyber attacks? They're attacks on American property and assets.

Oh really when?
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164553: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:00:52 PM

Nah, I think it's safe to say we're going to be at peace with the Russians. Because they already won, before anyone even knew we were fighting.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#164554: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:06:04 PM

@164,520: Yes

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/09/hillary-clintons-state-department-gave-south-sudans-military-a-pass-for-its-child-soldiers.

@164,521: It's not worth the death of human beings over property. This is like saying we should have the death penalty for theft.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:08:57 PM by SeriesOfNumbers

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#164555: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:09:50 PM

How about responding with arming Russia's neighbors, cyber attacks on their shit, and more economic sanctions?

Better than giving them the keys to the Oval Office....

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164556: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:10:47 PM

Military action does include just responding with cyber attacks in kind, that is the military's jurisdiction.

And ultimately yes, when it comes to unfriendly international relations sometimes killing people over property or land is the correct choice. We can't not respond to foreign attacks launched by foreign governments simply because nobody was hurt this time.

Nobody was injured in those missile attacks on the Mason, should we not have responded to them?

edited 28th Dec '16 2:12:15 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#164557: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:13:59 PM

Also, one of the thing you can blame obama is is soft response to Russia midding in Siria and getting away with it, hell they didnt get the backlash Bush invasion of irag got in his time, its quite annoying

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#164558: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:14:10 PM

@Rational Insanity: You think Trump is going to care enough to do any of that? I mean, he might not be able to control if one of our agencies do cyber attacks on another nation, or even care enough to tell them not to, but he's certainly not in the mood to sanction Russia. Not unless Putin publicly insults him, and Putin's not that stupid to piss off a useful idiot.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:14:37 PM by AceofSpades

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#164559: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:18:48 PM

Trump won't do shit, and that makes him negligent.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164560: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:19:43 PM

I believe Obama himself is going to announce new sanctions on Russia pretty soon. But unless he can find a way to actually make them stick even once he leaves office, it's a purely symbolic gesture - and a weak one at that. The time to act has passed, and leveraging new and ultimately ineffective sanctions at them months after their victory just makes us look ridiculous.

If there's one thing I'm pissed off at Obama for, it's this whole disaster. The ugly truth is, Russia screwed us over on his watch, and now he's handing the nuclear keys over to a treasonous kleptocrat.

I just hope that whatever he does with himself after he leaves office is good. He might be able to do good work rebuilding the DNC, or turning to more general activism.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164561: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:21:42 PM

There's not really much Obama could have done without basically refusing to step down and governing through force rather than legislation. Not sure that would have been a better option to be honest.

The Russians really got us this time.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:21:58 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164562: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:27:02 PM

Which, again, is why the time to act was before we got here. But instead he let McConnell strongarm him with the threat of appearing overly partisan - which isn't something the GOP have ever had any compunctions against.

As it stands, Trump is an illegitimate President whose very nature invites a Constitutional crisis. A few extra temporary sanctions against Russia are just going to make them laugh even harder.

Agreed, though. I think Putin may be one of the only people in the world who had a good 2016.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:27:22 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#164563: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:27:10 PM

Obama staying in power via force would result in Trump taking power by force, said force might include nuclear force on Trump's part, so I'd say Obama going peacefully is for the best.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164564: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:27:47 PM

I feel like people are really putting words in my mouth. Where did I say that I wanted Obama to refuse to cede power and declare himself King?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#164565: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:29:21 PM

You didn't but the idea has come up in the past in this thread.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#164566: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:32:32 PM

In this hypothetical scenario I'm at a loss to explain how Trump would have the nuclear power in the event of Obama trying to keep power by force, Silas. Since, you know, Obama staying in power would keep it away from him????

Eh, whatever, let's not derail again into hypothetical scenarios.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#164567: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:39:01 PM

Because elements of the armed forces would support Trump and some of said forces would likely be nuclear armed. Obama would also have nukes but in a second civil war scenario I fail to see how both sides wouldn't end up with access to nuclear weapons.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164568: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:43:57 PM

I'm not sure Trump will get rid of the sanctions so easily. Certainly I'd be politically costly enough that any normal politician would hesitate- it would serve to further paint him as a Russian puppet, and draw further bipartisan ire. It's not like he has a whole bunch of extra goodwill and support he can afford to spend.

He might do it nevertheless, as he's not a normal politician, but he'd have to come up with a damn good way to spin it first.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#164569: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:45:41 PM

Or maybe he'll expand them. I can very well imagine Trump being the sort of person who uses the Russians then as soon as he's in office turn on them.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164570: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:47:35 PM

That'll end poorly on him and the Republicans considering they've got all the data on them too.

Oh really when?
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#164571: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:49:35 PM

Trump will never turn on Russia, especially if the theories about them having blackmail material on him are true. And those aren't random crackpot theories, either - they have merit.

And as for overturning the sanctions earning him a lot of bad PR - he doesn't give a crap, nor does he have any real reason to. A scandal isn't going to sink his presidency, it'll be just another one for the heap.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#164572: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:51:02 PM

What blackmail material? We've seen plenty of bad press for the evil dog, that'd have to be some mighty powerful stuff to actually work.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164573: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:53:17 PM

Less on Trump, more on the rest of the Republican party.

The only thing that will sink Trump, and actually is causing trouble among his base, if he comes out says he's not for white supremacy. That Happy Hannakuh tweet pissed a lot of his voters off.

Oh really when?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#164574: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:55:06 PM

I don't think Trump has a proper understanding of what white supremacy IS. Not that he isn't racist but if asked about whether he thinks all men are equal or not, him giving lip service and denouncing the alt-right because he feels like it is just as likely as him giving a non-commital non-answer.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164575: Dec 28th 2016 at 2:55:28 PM

@RBluefish: That's overestimating him, I think. Because his numbers did take a hit every time a new scandal popped out. His coalition of support is fragile. The GOP brass hates him and would love an excuse to get rid of him. Tweeting 'Happy Hanukah' made the alt-right start fighting each other.

If he decides that one new scandal won't sink him, it's at his own peril. I do not think he's that stupid. At the very least, I believe he understands the importance of controlling the narrative, and wants to discredit the one where he's a Russian pawn.

edited 28th Dec '16 2:56:11 PM by Gilphon


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