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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
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At which point another right wing demagogue, even more extreme than Trump, will be voted in, perpetuating a vicious cycle which ends in dictatorship and/or collapse of the state.
I really, really hope you're right. But the democrats embracing authoritarianism in the way the GOP has would lead to a vicious cycle very similar to the sort of phenomena which has been the death knell of presidential democracies in Latin America many, many times.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:44:01 AM by CaptainCapsase
Silas: wait, you're telling me Tactical is not DWS* posting under an anonymous account?
{*} Insert alternative high-ranking democrat of your choice if you prefer.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:44:52 AM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVNope that's exactly who Tactical Fox is, thus why I said Fox isn't in charge of the party, DWS had to resign.
@Capsase- I'd like you to produce some evidence of Democrats supporting voter suppression.
The only talk I've heard as far as voting goes is basically to strive to win elections without needing to win any/many white working class voters. Maybe you consider this voter suppression in the same way that Republicans consider minorities voting to be voter fraud?
edited 27th Dec '16 10:48:21 AM by Hodor2
@164,212: What are you talking about?
@164,214: The Clinton campaign members are complaining about their e-mails being leaked but still acknowledging that the leaked e-mails are theirs. That means the corruption they discuss partaking in in the e-mails (threatening journalists for better coverage, working with a supposedly neutral DNC to tip the election against Sanders, pay-to-play corruption involving Qatar, etc.) really is corruption the Clintons and Hillary campaign partook in. Don't take Assange's word for it, just look at what the campaign itself says about the e-mails being theirs and then read about what's in the e-mails.
@164,215: Yes, that's exactly what he did by releasing the e-mails. Also, while I'm no fan of Trump, what interests of Putin is Trump friendly toward besides not going to war with Russia? Isn't avoiding another pointless war a good thing?
@164,217: It's what I took from him releasing the e-mails, not from him praising Trump. The info in the e-mails is info the American people had every right to know, regardless of the motives of the people who released it.
@164,216 &164,221: I never said anything about Assange's comments on Russia. Just that if being a Kremlin puppet means he keeps leaking documents showing info about our own government that we should've been allowed to know anyway - such as the DNC and Clinton e-mails - then I consider that a good outcome of him being a Kremlin puppet. That's not to say that the Kremlin having a puppet is good in itself, but at least there's a bright side.
edited 27th Dec '16 11:30:37 AM by SeriesOfNumbers
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At which point we're a de-facto one party state run by a centrist oligarchy. The reason I sound so pessimistic is because I'm very worried it's already too late to stop the feedback loop that's been set in motion.
@Hodor: Several pages on this very thread talked about strategies for suppressing white working class votes, and noted we'd need to control the governor's manor and the statehouses in our targeted state to do that. Plus, that kind of conduct is more or less implied when fiery op-eds proclaim we need to stop being nice and use the Republican's own toolkit against them.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:51:46 AM by CaptainCapsase
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Did they actually discuss doing that stuff? My understanding is that the stuff was suggested and then shot down, thus it was never done.
X3 It has been suggested here by a few people, but unless I'm greatly mistaken we are not the inner circle of the DNC.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:50:21 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
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Can we please not make these kinds of accusations?
There has been at least one person here who has asked how suppressing trump voters could theoretically be done, although he claimed he was just engaging in a thought experiment and agreed that it would be heinous to carry out in practice.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:51:23 AM by Draghinazzo
If Trump gets his SC nominee through, it's game over anyhow.
We should mainly just keep focused on how to keep the rights and progress we've already had.
Unless we get lucky and conservative justices die when Democrats control the Senate AND Presidency, we're fucked until the 2040s.
New Survey coming this weekend!It's called ...And That Would Be Wrong. All ideas are discussed, the best are chosen, the stupid and evil are discarded.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:52:54 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.@Fox you're ignoring who Trump's nominee would be replacing, the ballence of the court isn't going to change unless a liberal/centrist justice dies.
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Look we tried pizza but that almost caused both the New York and Chicago delegations to walk out, I'm not having that happen again.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:54:11 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran@Hodor: I should add that I'm also less talking about voter suppression efforts specifically, and more talking about calls for the democrats to "stop playing nice" and stoop to the GOP's level. Which implies suppressing voters outside of the democratic coalition in states where we have the power to do so, pulling legislative coups ala South Carolina when the opportunity arises, gerrymandering the hell out of any state they can get their hands on, deliberately sabotaging the federal government when they're a minority party...
That kind of stuff. There are very serious factions within the party that are in favor of using the GOP's tactics against them, as the numerous op-eds by strategists, pollsters, and others in the political industry in the Nytimes and the WaPo calling for that attest to.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:57:36 AM by CaptainCapsase
@Trump voters don't want him to take Obamacare: Okay, being serious here, am I an asshole for being happy that they'll be screwed over? I know people suffering is bad but part of me thinks that if Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare go it might be enough to cause a massive revolt against the Republicans. It's a shitty situation but I'm trying really hard to find potential positives.
Democrats want the Federal Government to work. It's part of their platform that the Government can and should be used to help everyone. Republicans sabotaging the day to day operations of government were a tactic to say "hey look how much the US government is useless LOL".
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.![]()
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It might go down like that, or it might not. Suggesting we give Trump rope to hang himself is no different from voting for Trump in the hopes that his incompetence will cause "the establishment" to collapse. Accelerationism is inherently dangerous like that.
edited 27th Dec '16 10:59:22 AM by CaptainCapsase
@Capsase- I don't know it does. I think you're taking a couple of asshole comments here and using it as usual as a stick to attack Democrats. The only time I've heard descriptions of not playing nice it was in the context of preventing Trump from successfully making appointments/implementing programs. Which I know you disagree with in the context of infrastructure spending (and I'm conflicted on that myself), but that's not supporting voter suppression.
You know, I think the problem we have/why Democrats hate Leftists is that when stories come up about how white working class voters don't acknowledge benefits they've gotten from Democrats- usually in the form of attributing those benefits to Republicans and wanting to keep those same benefits from non-white people ("Welfare Queens"), the reaction of Leftists is not to acknowledge that there's clearly some racism in play here. Rather, the reaction is to say that these voters are 100% right and to assert that Democrats have been awful to them. And of course to start talking how bad the Democrats' "emphasis on identity politics" is for the party.
edited 27th Dec '16 11:03:13 AM by Hodor2
A PIT: perverse incentive trap. Moloch offers you a deal, sacrifice what you love the most, and he will grant you power. If you don't, you'll be out-competed.
In other words, if you've got skin in the game, you stay in the game, but you don't get to win unless you're playing the game.
The GOP brought a knife to a fistfight. Are you a bad enough dude to still win clean, or will you lose rather than stoop?
edited 27th Dec '16 11:02:41 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
X3 Are the op-eds calling for that? Because I think a lot of the "time to stop playing nice" talk is just calls for an end to stuff like the deal made in North Carolina (the Dems in Charlote agreed to repeal an LGBT protection law in exchange for an anti-trans law being repealed at the state level, the Republicans by the way got the Dems to do their repeal then refused to do their half of the deal). It's a call for an end to helping Republicans get things passed for the good of the country.
It's possible to stop helping Republicans or making deals with Republicns without resorting to voter suppression or gerrymandering.
edited 27th Dec '16 11:03:07 AM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

I think that the Democrats will avoid such impulses, in the end the Democrats don't have a decades long history of people dog whistling such rhetoric to a base that laps it up. It took decades to get Trump, decades of dog whistles leaving an angry base desperate for the real thing, the Dems have not had decades of dog whistles and while it's possible they're about to start down that path I see no contender for the Democratic leadership that's likely to take us down that path.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Tactical Fox is in charge of the Democratic Party.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran