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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#164226: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:09:46 AM

Doesn't count the free advertising that Trump got from the press though.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#164227: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:15:20 AM

Was the election in Maine the result of vote splitting?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164228: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:22:18 AM

[up]Lepage won with 48% of the vote, which is par for course; his two opponents added up to 51% and change, with the independent sapping 8.4% for himself even after he tacitly endorsed the Democrat. Depending on the breakdown, ranked-choice voting would have had a good chance of giving Lepage the boot and making him a one-termer.

edited 26th Dec '16 11:23:05 AM by ViperMagnum357

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#164229: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:25:14 AM

So, it's almost like third parties will always fuck one guy over in FPTP systems or something!

New Survey coming this weekend!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164230: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:27:07 AM

That doesn't sound like it was the result of vote splitting to me. 48% is pretty high for a race with three candidates who can be taken seriously.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164231: Dec 26th 2016 at 11:41:49 AM

[up]An exit poll suggested most of Cutler' voters would have had Michaud as their second choice; with Lepage failing to break 50%, ranked-choice voting with perhaps 85-90% crossover would have dumped Lepage without a runoff. Post-2012 Republicans tend to have very low favorability outside their core base, while most third parties outside the Libertarians and Federalists tend to lean Democrat when push comes to shove.

edited 26th Dec '16 11:42:29 AM by ViperMagnum357

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#164232: Dec 26th 2016 at 12:21:45 PM

Federalists?!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164233: Dec 26th 2016 at 12:35:46 PM

[up]Indirectly, with some of the support for Big Government split between the Democrats by default, and others making a push at the state level with the goal of moving upwards; playing into the hands of the GOP at a time when a united front is necessary to curb their horrid platform. The end result is whatever groundswell getting fractured before takeoff, with stuff like this [1] becoming more common.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#164234: Dec 26th 2016 at 2:46:48 PM

The Federalist party was dissolved in 1824!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164235: Dec 26th 2016 at 3:13:36 PM

[up]...??? I was referring to the grassroots "Federalist" movements today, including basic big government types scattered throughout the Democrats, and several factions that have coalesced at the state and municipal levels after the perceived failure of the DNC to rein in the Tea Party. Some of them have abandoned the Democratic coalition and stand in opposition to them, and are focusing efforts below the national level in order to unseat both parties.

In the long term, unlikely to happen without splintering the Democrats into several factions, and in the short term undercutting unified resistance to Republican dominance across the board. There has been a lot of noise since Trump was confirmed as candidate, and the article I linked to above is a taste of what may come soon. Abandoning the fight for Congress and the White House in favor of building from the ground up makes the dangerous assumption you will not be locked out of office in the meantime.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#164236: Dec 26th 2016 at 3:41:21 PM

Oh, so it's Federalism as an informal movement rather than a party, standing against the Tea Party? Why aren't they just Democrats?

For the record, I strongly approve of Federalism.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164237: Dec 26th 2016 at 3:51:39 PM

I was referring specifically to the elements in those movements that have gotten fed up with failings both real and perceived by the current parties; fracturing now risks leaving us with another Green Party, a spoiler that has to carve out a niche to the expense of mostly Democrat bases to gain a voice-and doing the GOP's work for them.

edited 26th Dec '16 3:52:53 PM by ViperMagnum357

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#164238: Dec 26th 2016 at 4:22:19 PM

Do they just muck up the Governor's race or do they have a presence in the legislature?

Trump delenda est
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#164239: Dec 26th 2016 at 4:47:42 PM

The Guardian: Julian Assange gives guarded praise of Trump and blasts Clinton in interview

Relevant quote from the article:

In his interview with la Repubblica, he said there was no need for Wiki Leaks to undertake a whistleblowing role in Russia because of the open and competitive debate he claimed exists there.

This confirms the only thing transparent about Assange is his being a Kremlin puppet.

edited 26th Dec '16 4:47:54 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
SeriesOfNumbers Since: Jun, 2013
#164240: Dec 26th 2016 at 4:57:58 PM

If being a Kremlin puppet means he informs us about the corruption in our own government, I'll take it.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164241: Dec 26th 2016 at 4:58:45 PM

[up][up][up]You will need to be more specific-the scattered groups I am referring to are preexisting elements, mostly within the democratic party, that have made increasing noise about the current direction of neoliberalism and advocate a fundamental overhaul. I lumped them in with the Libertarians because their current aims will inadvertently align with the goals of the GOP, rendering them as part of the problem long before they get their solution.

Not to be confused with "New Federalism", which was a fresh coat of paint Reagan slapped on State's Rights as part of his overhaul of the Republican Party. The article I linked dates back to March, and was simply one more voice among several splitting the Democrat base with little to no gain within immediate reach.

edited 26th Dec '16 4:59:52 PM by ViperMagnum357

Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#164242: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:00:06 PM

First, getting rid of Political Parties overall would be a good move, removing blind Party faith, and forcing people to actually research what each candidate stands for.

You're grossly overestimating the average voter, then. Most voters won't bother doing any research beyond the superficial campaign promises and maybe debates, if that. One of the benefits of political parties is that they serve a similar purpose to chain restaurants. You don't always need to have eaten at a specific location to have a good idea of what you're getting if you're familiar with another. The vast majority of the population is politically illiterate, and having convenient parties that they can look at and say "Yeah, that mostly sounds like what I'm for," lets them make a more educated decision than what they would without political parties, which is to vote for whoever the most charismatic candidate is.

The problem we're facing is not that political parties exist, but that one party has spent the last few decades radicalizing its base through fear, hate, and ignorance to vote for them religiously, and is now losing the reigns to people who earnestly believe in the propaganda the party knowingly seeded them with.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#164243: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:02:31 PM

[up][up][up][up]Just read that snippet myself. Well, not that that will change the mind of Malaysian tankies RT viewers.

Trump does not actually have a plan to defeat Daesh. Gingrich is going to spend a while prostrate for this...

[up][up][up]Are we going to have to spend the next 8 pages watching you continuously moving the goalposts again?

edited 26th Dec '16 5:04:22 PM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#164244: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:04:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]How can we trust he's being honest and not just making it up on the Kremlin's behalf?

Oh really when?
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#164245: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:10:59 PM

Series Of Numbers: That won't happen if the government is Kremlin friendly. Only when it's anti-Russia, and Trump's definitely pro-Russia, so Assange won't inform shit.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#164246: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:16:37 PM

If being a Kremlin puppet means he informs us about the corruption in our own government, I'll take it.
You mean like he's been doing lately?

I mean, I guess if he wanted to maximize the amount of corruption in our government to inform us of, he made the right call in working to tear down Hillary and giving Trump a free pass.

But more seriously, fuck Assange, he clearly has no interest in the best interests of America or its people and will likely continue to only release information that serves the interests of nations that seek to undermine democracy.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#164247: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:29:01 PM

Do you actually believe the shit that Assange says about Russia?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#164248: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:38:39 PM

Honestly, if you can read a post that mentions Assange praising Trump what you get out of it is 'he's letting us know about corrupt in government', then, well, I'm forced to question the amount of effort you put into having an informed opinion about corruption in government. And if you're not interested any putting effort into that, I dunno why you'd consider that a silver lining about Assange.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#164249: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:40:50 PM

[up][up]...Do you mean do we believe what he says, that he believes what he says, or that he can say it with a straight face? I don't believe a thing he says, and if he said the sky was a certain color I would go get a second opinion. I believe he can say the things he does because he is either under someone's thumb or legitimately detached from reality-call it a coinflip on that last one.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#164250: Dec 26th 2016 at 5:46:27 PM

I think he's certainly guilty of lying by omission or providing things without appropriate context but I don't think he goes so far as to flat out make stuff up.

edited 26th Dec '16 5:46:38 PM by Kostya


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