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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
And really even if he is, it's a dangerous game to play. Not to invoke Godwin again, but the German government saw Adolf Hitler as a useful idiot until he subverted democracy into...well..y'know..
"All you Fascists bound to lose."We wouldn't want the more authoritarian, anti-intellectual, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic and xenophobic peasants to be silenced now, would we? Taking away power from rural people would probably be the best thing for society. Any society, really, no matter the country. They have proven themselves to be smallminded assholes throughout history again and again.
In general, democracies don't spontaneously become dictatorships unless there's some sort of major crisis that's destabilizing the democratic regime. So America is safe in that regard.
"Those people are ignorant savages who don't know what's best for them"-no unfortunate implications there! Who's calling who a xenophobic authoritarian now?
edited 25th Dec '16 6:14:22 PM by Protagonist506
Leviticus 19:34Yes. Yes they are. They have proven it time and again. It's just not politically correct to acknowledge it. Just because it was applied to undeserving groups in the past, doesn't mean it's not true here. It's not based on their biology, it's based on their demonstrated behaviour. Not tolerating intolerance isn't intolerant. Rural people are tribalists and don't want to share power with people that are different from them. I say we honor their wish. If you want to vote, move to the city. Get to know people that are different from you before you decide for all of them.
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What more evidence do we need before we can definitively say that rural people don't know what's good for them? It happens. If people are raised to distrust science, the media, the government, and people that aren't cishet whites then why should we expect them to know these things? It's not like we're saying they're like this because they're cishet whites. They're like that because of a culture that they actively support. It's not too different from how some women uphold the patriarchy.
Here's the thing though. Liberals could just say fuck them and ignore their concerns. But we don't. We try to help them even when they keep slapping our hand away.
edited 25th Dec '16 6:50:09 PM by Kostya
The only way I see that happening is if the GOP-controlled Congress pulls a real-life You Have Outlived Your Usefulness on him. I do think that a good number of them are capitulating to him out of pure weasely self-interest, but cowardice is a powerful thing. Something big would need to hit Trump, hard enough for all the Republican rats to start fleeing the sinking ship.
That's the scary part. With grossly incompetent leadership (including a so-called president who thinks he doesn't need to attend security briefings), escalating tensions worldwide, emboldened terrorist organizations, and a hostile foreign power that has a proven interest in destabilizing or eradicating Western democracies? I think the odds of us suffering a major crisis in the next four years are almost certain.
And when that happens, the rules change. All bets will be off. Michael Moore, who predicted Trump's victory, did an article warning about this - it could prove to be just the shove that's needed to send us over the edge.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Man, I didn't realize Trump was starting to rub off on some people here. Saying that certain people are unfit to rule, or participate in Democracy, is exactly what every Racist and Supremacist in history has said and supported to some extent. And it doesn't matter if the people aren't the best educated in Political Matters, Democracy, even in a Democratic Republic like ours, allows for everyone to vote.
Are we going to start supporting Intelligence Taxes at Polling Stations? Are we going to support Neo-Jim Crow Laws directed against Rural White Americans?
They're not like you and me, which means they must be evil.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:00:04 PM by Yinyang107
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In a Democracy, every issue is important. It doesn't matter if you think they're going about the issue the wrong way; if the Voters feel an Issue is important enough to make them vote, then it is important.
I agree that Educating Voters is of the utmost importance, but simply saying "No, sorry, you're issue is either stupid or wrong" is not the way to go about it.
I don't think that's true. Suppose a person's issue is being upset that gays can marry. It's a stupid issue and the government shouldn't cater to them. I'm a firm believer in the idea that while you're entitled to your opinion it's possible that your opinion is completely fucking stupid and should be dismissed. In my view it's the job of our elected officials to use the government's resources to determine which issues are worth caring about.
Kostya didn't say their issues weren't important. They said their issues weren't legitimate. There's a difference.
Like, the fact that rural white voters want to kick out all the minorities and Make America White Again is certainly an important issue. That doesn't make it a legitimate issue. It's only important in the sense of "how do we protect minorities from these assholes, and how do we get their bigotry to stop hijacking our democracy?"
Essentially
'd.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:06:06 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."The sad thing is, the worst effects of the Trump administration will almost certainly hit the Red States the hardest, since they are the ones that depend the most on federal funding. It's become painfully clear that the GOP isn't really concerned with governing at all — they just want power. Whether it's due to incompetence or malice, the fact is: the GOP for the most part can't govern for shit.
Repealing the ACA would be even worse for people in the Red States than for people in the Blue States. And many of the places where the lead content in the water is worse than in Flint, Michigan are in Red States. A lot of the social programs many people in those states need to survive will be slashed if not killed entirely. The Trump administration's policies will kill many of the people in their own voter base.
And yet their voters remain loyal for the most part. Because what the GOP does not deliver in terms of actual concrete aid and leadership, it offers in terms of psychological validation. The GOP tells their voters to embrace their mediocrity, their intolerance, and their refusal to let go of the past. The GOP tells them that their pain and suffering is not due to any shortcomings or faults on their part. No...it's because those others who aren't real Americans are sabotaging them. The GOP does not ask their voters to change.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:17:16 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedI would say "fuck 'em, better them than us," if it weren't for all of the blue voters in those states who would also suffer because of that - especially in the swing states where the margin of victory was razor-thin (thanks mostly to conveniently uncounted votes).
And with the GOP's propaganda machine truckin' along, combined with the sheer cretinous ignorance of their supporters, I don't like the odds of Trump's fanclub turning on him in sufficient numbers to make a difference. And even if they do, by that point things would have had to get so bad that we may have gone the way of North Carolina and no longer be living in a democracy.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:18:04 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Nobody was saying they wouldn't be allowed to vote.
The issue is that if for whatever reason, at some point the US elections were decided by popular vote, it is a fact that they would have less voting power than they do now. Which I'm sure the more vindictive parts of us would be thrilled with given the present circumstances, but beyond that I'd like to address the other argument mentioned, that the cities SHOULD be prioritized because they're the most important parts of the US economically.
In a purely utilitarian sense, yes, that would follow as a logical conclusion, but I don't think pure utilitarianism is what should drive a government's decisions. I think there should probably still be something to give them SOME representation, without giving them as much power as they have now.
Also
Aprilla and other people made the point earlier that there are plenty of Po C living outside of the cities in Red states/out in the country who are going to get dumpstered by this administration.
Trump voters have done a lot to earn contempt but if I'm honest with you, Trump and what the GOP will become under him are so horrible that I don't want that for anyone. My only hope is that at least a decent amount of people will learn their lessons after this.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:22:48 PM by Draghinazzo
It's worth pointing out that even with the EC, the people in less populated states don't really get much of a say anyway. Not much attention is paid to most states that only have 4 or fewer electoral votes, for example.
Which is why it's really annoying that people on the right and left criticized HRC for supposedly focusing too much on "identity politics". FWIW, she mostly talked about the economy and jobs in her speeches.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:21:00 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised![]()
That's half the reason they're doing it in the first place. We've got Bill O'Reilly now openly and unabashedly spouting white supremacist talk on national TV (even more so than before, with barely an effort made to dogwhistle).
The GOP are the party of hate.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:20:25 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Draghinazzo: They have representation through their Senators and Reps. Why do I have to keep saying this? It's not like we're saying they should be ignored. We're just saying that the President, as leader of the entire country, should reflect the collective will of the people. As such a straight popular vote makes the most sense. Congress, by contrast, is a collection of multiple individuals who are tasked with representing specific districts or states.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:23:34 PM by Kostya
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Our new slogan: "Make America Great Again - Like It Was Two Months Ago."
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Hell, if you ask me, the Senate needs looking at too. A little flyspeck of a state with 500K people in it should not have the same political clout as a state of forty million.
edited 25th Dec '16 7:24:32 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."

Various people I know- Trump voters and Clinton voters- keep telling me and themselves that Trump's probably going to be impeached early enough, because the man is obviously unfit by any standard.
I don't think so. I think the Republican party leadership has fully devolved. I don't think they view Trump as a useful puppet rubber stamp their gutting of healthcare and the environment, I think they see him as the rightful ruler.