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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Actual argument from a Trump supporter:
edited 21st Dec '16 11:21:48 AM by PushoverMediaCritic
Honestly, when told that crimes are overwhelmingly committed by specific groups...one would think that the question that ought to be asked is "Why is that the case?"
Which makes me wonder what this - purportedly Mexican - person would say to that.
Oh God! Natural light!Late to the discussion, but on the topic of Trump supporters in the family - I can honestly say that I'm incredibly lucky in this regard. My parents and my sibling are all almost as horrified about what's happening right now as I am (although they don't seem to think that a slide into outright fascism is a possibility at this point, which I unfortunately do). Even my grandparents, two old white Midwestern retirees, think he's a disgusting thug.
I'm not close with the rest of my extended family, including the Chinese side, so I have no idea where they stand on the matter. And I may be better off not knowing, because if I found myself sitting at the same table as a Trump supporter, a screaming match would be inevitable.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."@PMC: I'm more or less familiar with that mentality, it's basically the desire to be accepted on the terms of people who otherwise dislike you categorally because that's the only metric of acceptance that you really care about.
Anyways I don't live in the US but in my family the political divide is more or less divided by age. My brother, sister and I would probably be most accurately classified as social democrats (my brother being gay and my sister being bi are probably the biggest contributors to this). I arrived at my views on social and political issues pretty independently of him though he's been a big influence on my sister since she's still quite young.
I'm not sure how I'd classify my mother (a white lawyer and business owner), although a libertarian is probably the closest thing. She has a bone to pick with government in general (she had a really horrible upbringing and thusly has a strong belief of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" as a result) and is critical of measures like affirmative action, but otherwise isn't socially conservative. She thinks Trump is a vile reactionary thug and would probably either have held her nose and voted clinton or just not voted.
My mother's side of the family according to my sister is very right-wing and I have a suspicion many of them would have voted for Trump even if begrudgingly (probably due to the fact that they come from a primarily rural, insular and white community).
My father (a peruvian man of amerindian descent) is probably the most likely person in our immediate family to vote Republican. He grew up in a mormon household and is very, very pro-capitalism and big business because he has the exact same "American dream complex" as many other americans, where he lionizes the wealthy and likes to think himself as an elite entrepreneur who's temporarily down on his luck (which he isn't). He's not really socially conservative though, probably a hardcore libertarian more than anything else. Because I don't discuss politics with my dad if I can avoid it and I don't have much contact with him these days I don't know his opinion of Trump but I think it's likely that he'd see him as a drooling baboon.
I have some cousins actually living in the US right now who are both devout Mormons. Both of them lean more conservative as a result, and I sincerely hope they voted for Mc Mullin because I don't think I could look at them the same way otherwise (for the record both of them are peruvian mixed race).
To be honest whenever the subject comes up, whether it's my dad trying to explain to me "how the world works" or my mother making ignorant comments about social welfare I just roll my eyes or in the case of my father tell him that i'm not really interested in a discussion with him about politics since it's going to go nowhere and just make us annoyed.
edited 21st Dec '16 12:05:18 PM by Draghinazzo
@Family Trump supporters: I don't have anyone in my family like that to my knowledge, immediate or extended.
Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.![]()
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So Texas is officially denying women healthcare. Fucking hell. Didn't Obama pass a law prohibiting states from doing exactly this? Or am I misremembering?
On a note of...not exactly positivity, but hope: Welcome to the Resistance,
from George Takei (one of my personal heroes).
As both an Asian-American and an LGBT American, I have borne witness to some of the most egregious injustices and tragedies of our national history, where both the public and the politicians turned against us to devastating effect. Many know that I grew up in internment camps where we were held without trial or even charge for years, simply because we happened to look like the people who bombed Pearl Harbor. Fewer remember that, as a young man, it was illegal for me in many states to marry a Caucasian person due to antimiscegenation laws. And as a gay man, I stayed deeply in the closet out of fear that I would not find work as an "out" actor. That same fear rendered me silent even as the scourge of the AIDS epidemic in the '80s and '90s took so many of our community, while the government turned a blind, callous eye.
But know this: I do not look upon all those difficult years solely as blights in my life. To the contrary, they helped forge who I am today. As both an ethnic and sexual minority, an "outsider" in nearly every sense, I was forced to learn the rules of society very early on. Unlike my straight white male counterparts, out of pure necessity I grew keenly aware of the way our society was ordered. I had to take note of the system so that I did not run afoul of it. That meant that, without realizing it, I became highly self-aware as well as a careful observer of others, far more so than those simply living out their lives, who blissfully had nothing to hide, nothing to fear. With that came a certain social adeptness; I learned how to model and shape my world as a result.
And I grew tough, my own self-critiques far outpacing anything society could level at me.
In today's political environment, we find ourselves again outsiders, forming a core of those opposed to the powers in Washington and in many of our state capitals. But this is not unfamiliar territory. It is, in fact, where movements were born. The greatest moments in civil rights, from Selma to Stonewall, Seneca Falls to Standing Rock, sprang forward not from eras of harmony, but out of bitter conflict.
It is axiomatic that little worth fighting for has ever come without a fight. New veterans of our struggle will emerge from the coming clashes. And while we all wish that future generations would not have to face the terror, isolation, and even deadly effects of hatred and bigotry, we are reminded today, more than ever, that the struggle may truly never be over. Enemies of progress, equality, and justice often slip away unnoticed for years, regroup and change their names and strategies, then re-emerge to challenge what we have gained.
This does not mean, however, that we are starting again from ground zero. When they came for my family and my community back in 1942, very few others stood up for us. The Japanese-American community felt alone. Similarly, when drag queens rioted at Stonewall in 1969, the LGBT community also had few allies. But today, when the incoming administration threatened Muslim registries and racial profiling, the progressive response was collective and swift to say we would register as well. When Native Americans camped out in the freezing cold to oppose the Dakota Access Pipeline, veterans came to stand with them. And when Trump began to name a cabinet of homophobic and hateful bigots, communities of all colors and creeds decried it. We truly have grown stronger together, and with each new assault upon our dignity and humanity, we will grow stronger still.
So welcome to the resistance. It's where the next heroes of our movement will emerge. Be ready. Be vigilant. Be strong.
edited 21st Dec '16 12:10:28 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."I've got a cousin who moved to the States, became a citizen (and apparently a born-again fanatic) and is a Trump supporter. I blocked her on social media, but I've never met the woman so it probably isn't an issue.
Other than that, my family is text-book moderate on most issues. Comes from so many of us being government employees I guess.
edited 21st Dec '16 12:36:47 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.My dad was an actual communist (he even had his own membership card!) when he was my age, and my mom is a progressive, as is my step-dad and all our family. I have friends and former friends who voted Trump. I haven't talked to them in a while.
edited 21st Dec '16 1:23:22 PM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."I don't have any Trump supporters in my immediate family though my dad who mostly votes Democrat out of party loyalty is nevertheless kind of bigoted and very pro-big business would vote Republican had it not been for the Democrats passing the Immigration Act of 1965 that let his family into the country. The people in my family who are Trump supporters are all on my dad's side, and tend to be motivated more by paranoid fear of Communism or because they genuinely think Trump will make our country economically wealthy and that he actually got rags-to-rich through legitimate skill, no matter what i tell them. A lot of them are bigoted old fossils, but it's not the reason they voted Trump.
My mother's side of the family are "conventional" Baby Boomer Democrats, though my mother is a little conservative in her own way (she supports LGBT rights and is fine with my sexuality but dislikes it when gay people "flaunt it" and is pro-choice but still sneers at the supposed modern "culture of promiscuity" that encourages women to get pregnant out of wedlock).
edited 21st Dec '16 12:48:28 PM by AlleyOop
"Hillary lost because of her obsession with identity politics. Also, why is nobody talking about the white working class?"
Also - Brianna Wu appears to be preparing to run for Congress.
@ family and politics: My mom is formerly a diehard Republican supporter who, even she realizes how much of a megalomaniacal kleptocratic nucking futjob Der Trumpenfuhrer is, though that didn't stop her from spouting off all the bullshit Clinton conspiracy theories without even the slightest hint of disbelief, and shouting me and my sister down whenever we express anything other than perfect agreement.
The old bastard My dad just doesn't seem to particularly give a crap one way or another, and hasn't voted in at least a decade, and was slightly incredulous at the fact that I would. Presumably he thinks that being A. a legal citizen, and B. not an Arab, the blackshirts will leave him alone. Or something.
edited 21st Dec '16 1:07:24 PM by Reflextion
Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.One reason I think my dad has such severe voter apathy and doesn't think Trump will be much worse than a "typical" politician is because he's had a very low opinion of politics in general for much of his life. That's because of his dad — my grandpa — who was in politics. By all accounts, gramps did pretty well, but he hated the wheeling and dealing he had to do just to get shit done on the local level. When giving career advice to his kids, he told them "Stay the FUCK out of politics. It WILL force you to compromise yourself."
My dad took his advice to heart. Perhaps too much so.
Disgusted, but not surprised

You won't convince the most fanatic Trump followers, what you need is to convince the ones who are more moderate as well as those who have ignored politics so far that it is time to stand up for their rights.