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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#163527: Dec 20th 2016 at 3:56:13 PM

[up][up] Yeah, no. I'm going to take a lot of what Trump says literally. Doing anything else is just not acceptable at this point.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163528: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:03:14 PM

The suggestion itself is nonsense semantically, but as a symbol Trump doesn't look any better.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#163530: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:15:00 PM

How long before they beat someone to death for mouthing off I wonder? Or at least get dragged off of some poor bugger by the Secret Service?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#163531: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:31:35 PM

Trump has his own secret police. Wonderful.

Yeah, liberals arming themselves suddenly isn't looking like such a terrible idea all of a sudden.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163532: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:36:40 PM

Well arming yourself against the EVIL GOVERNMENT is pretty consistent with republican values.

Not that there's any expectation of them being consistent with that ideology as applied to people who aren't them.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#163533: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:37:42 PM

Especially when it comes to the browns and the blacks. As far as most Republicans are concerned, the Second Amendment is for white people only.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163534: Dec 20th 2016 at 4:46:03 PM

If minorities arming themselves causes the Republicans to pass sensible gun laws then I'm not complaining.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163535: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:07:46 PM

The laws would probably only apply to minorities if their strategy is any indication.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163536: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:11:29 PM

Even with Trump I don't think the GOP would be bold enough to blatantly write a law that outlaws black people from buying guns. At the very least it would be very hard to avoid the Nazi comparisons.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#163537: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:12:52 PM

[up]It wouldn't need to be that blatant. All that would need to happen is the laws would be much more stringently enforced in minority neighborhoods.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#163538: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:16:54 PM

Exactly. They didn't need to sign a law that said "Black People Cannot Vote" to enact criminal levels of voter suppression and steal numerous elections - including this one. It's easy to stay within the letter of the law when you're the one writing the laws.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163539: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:18:49 PM

Well, I was mostly saying that under the assumption that they WOULDN'T be explicit. As I understand it, that's how voter suppression works for them too, nothing SPECIFICALLY targets minorities and the poor but they choose measures to make it much more difficult for them to be registered and vote. Since nothing in the laws is explicit they can always play dumb and defend the measures by making statements that sound somewhat reasonable to the uninformed.

I have to confess I have no idea how that would work with gun ownership though.

[nja][nja]

[up] I read last week that the voter suppression targeting african-americans might have cost Al Gore the electoral votes in Florida, just for another example of this.

edited 20th Dec '16 5:27:52 PM by Draghinazzo

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163540: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:21:16 PM

Don't you already need I Ds to buy guns though? I'm having a tough time thinking of qualifiers they could use that wouldn't also anger the NRA lobby.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#163541: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:29:56 PM

Just theoretically, how would one go about enacting laws to suppress the kind of people who vote for Trump, and what would these laws specifically do?

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163542: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:33:09 PM

I think even talking about that theoretically is a bit of a red flag, but you'd need to supress middle-class and uneducated whites mostly.

There would be no political will for that kind of measure, and we don't need to give them any more of a victim complex.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#163543: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:35:55 PM

I have just as much contempt for those people as everybody else, but even I would balk at the idea of adopting the GOP's voter suppression tactics for use against them. Those tactics are blatantly undemocratic and fly in the face of the Constitution. If we copy their playbook too heavily, are we really any better than they are?

Well...yes, I suppose. But not by enough.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#163544: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:37:58 PM

Probably the easiest way of doing it would to reduce the number of polling stations in urban areas- force them to travel large distances to vote. But even that would be tricky- in cities it's easy to say 'what's the difference between 19 and 20 polling stations?', but in small towns you'd need a damn good reason to shut down the only polling place in town.

There's no way to actually ban them from voting that wouldn't be horrifyingly undemocratic.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163545: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:38:21 PM

I'd argue that Democrats would still be better because they're doing it for noble reasons. Of course Well-Intentioned Extremist is a trope for a reason.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#163546: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:40:14 PM

The way the voter suppression of minorities works without specifically stating "black people can't vote" kind of reminds me of the Adam Ruins Everything episode covering drugs. According to the show, one of the original reasons for the "War on Drugs" was because that made it easier crack down on people the government didn't like.

John Ehrlichman: We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.

edited 20th Dec '16 5:40:57 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#163547: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:40:33 PM

The main thing for me is that while I support being pragmatic, you can only be so pragmatic before your victory becomes pyrrhic.

Currently, the democrats largely respect the laws, respect science, respect people who aren't white, and respect democracy. There has to be a bare minimum one can't compromise on, lest the person you're voting for become way too close to the opposition to be an improvement.

That and, again, I don't want to do anything that would validate the intellectually lazy and grating "both parties are equally bad" bullshit, or much of the republican conspiracies and scare tactics.

edited 20th Dec '16 5:43:06 PM by Draghinazzo

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#163548: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:41:26 PM

Yeah, if you're willing to go that far to win...you might as well just join the GOP.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#163549: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:43:01 PM

Of course, the thing is that there's no actual reason to turn that particular dirty tactic against the GOP, because simply fighting and overturning voter suppression is good enough for the dems to win without compromising their morals.

edited 20th Dec '16 5:43:40 PM by Gilphon

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#163550: Dec 20th 2016 at 5:46:16 PM

When faced with cheating, one should do everything they can to fight that cheating, not resort to it themselves.

It'd be like responding to opponents doping in the Olympics with more doping. If you do that, then the whole thing becomes a twisted farce.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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