TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163476: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:18:42 PM

[up][up] Looking for strongmen to run the party is not what you do when you want to avoid a descent into authoritarianism. We need to play things smarter, not fight harder.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:19:32 PM by CaptainCapsase

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#163477: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:19:40 PM

[up][up] Definitely. If it wasn't for voter suppression, we'd all be awaiting President Clinton's inauguration right now, and looking forward to a brighter future.

Organizations like the ACLU are trying to fight back against it, but they can only do so much. And when the GOP gain control of the Supreme Court, then...

I think what needs to happen is the public needs to start making some serious noise. Put the pressure on, through methods including but not limited to mass protest. 87 voting machines conveniently broke in Detroit. Hundreds of thousands of people - if not more - were purged nationwide from the ballots because of Crosscheck. People ought to be marching in the streets and demanding their votes be counted.

[up] There's a bit of middle ground between "strongman authoritarian" and "wimps who roll over at the first sign of opposition," which is essentially what we have now.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:21:16 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#163478: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:24:24 PM

Bernie's team is trying to call Hillary's team incompetent?

lmfao.

Glass houses and all that.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163479: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:34:01 PM

[up] Clinton was obliterated in terms of social media presence both in the primaries and the general, and fell flat in the Midwest in both elections. She was a weak candidate from a party that's weak outside ofurban centers with a coalition that's so balkanized that it collapses like a house of cards without a masterful soothsayer at the head of the ticket. So yes, I think there are very real grounds to criticize, because Sanders campaign certainly presents avenues for improvement the first two problems, either of which could have turned the election in favor of Clinton.

Long term the party is still in deep shit; if the Republicans manage to nominate somebody who can contest the black community at the same rate that they contest other minorities (30:70ish), or if Gen Z turns out to be conservative leaning as some people assert, most states become untenable for the democrats.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:34:25 PM by CaptainCapsase

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#163480: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:34:16 PM

[up][up][up]If you're in a state with laws that cause or enable voter suppression (and gerrymandering), try and get enough people to throw a class-action lawsuit against the state government, if you're not, try to find out if there are any currently active ones in any state, and donate some money to pay for the expenses.

[up]Why would gen Z go conservative?

edited 20th Dec '16 1:35:23 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163481: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:36:23 PM

[up] They were raised under the more ineffectual part of Obama's presidency, and if Trump does decently they'll be far easier to contest than Gen Y. Barring a modern Reagan or a major reform of the party message, I doubt they'll be strongly GOP leaning, but I wouldn't rule out either.

Before you wax on about how obvious it is Trump is going to fail, I'd advise against predicating your electoral strategy on the other party failing unless you have the means to make that a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy through obstruction, which the democrats do not, even if we ignore the obvious quandary that avenue presents.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:38:40 PM by CaptainCapsase

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#163482: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:39:11 PM

[up]Trump would have to be pretty fortunate for things to go even decently. Though I concede that the bar for him is so low that merely being a bad president could be spun as a victory.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163483: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:41:49 PM

[up] And based on current projections about the American economy, the stars are aligning for him. Sure he'll send the deficit through the roof, but he's a Republican so it doesn't matter, especially if the democrats have to clean up the mess afterwards.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:43:02 PM by CaptainCapsase

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#163484: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:45:31 PM

[up][up][up]Although you're definitely right about not getting complacent, I'd be more worried about him being presented as decent than actually being so (meaning, media wants another horse race, and Goebbelbart gets more influential, spinning everything he does into looking good).

Also, is anyone in the thread from Virginia? there's gonna be special races to replace three state representatives leaving their spots in January, so you may want to contribute.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:46:00 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163485: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:46:35 PM

[up] "Decent" in the sense that George W. Bush's first term was "decent" enough for him to be reelected.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#163486: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:48:40 PM

Yes, and Obama's second term is ending "decent" enough ... and Trump "won" anyhow. Dude, you are way overselling the economy as the sole influencing factor. Besides, Congress. What makes you think they'll grow economic understanding?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#163487: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:48:44 PM

[up][up]So... still fucking bad, yet not quite soul crushingly horrible?

I could live with that.tongue

edited 20th Dec '16 1:48:58 PM by kkhohoho

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163488: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:52:04 PM

[up][up] Trump in 2020 will have the incumbent advantage, he will likely have a decent if not good economy, and a big chunk of the electorate will have gotten used to the blatant conflicts of interest. It's also conceivable that he'll have a major foreign policy achievement under his belt, namely a new detente with Russia, one that might very well last just long enough for him to be reelected.

Under the "Keys to the White House" model of presidential elections, which was one of the only ones that successfully predicted Trump, that makes him incredibly hard to unseat.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:53:30 PM by CaptainCapsase

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#163489: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:54:17 PM

There is no guarantee that the big infrastructure project will actually stimulate the economy given how it is structured and tax cuts are likely to have a minimal effect. Not to mention that all of that is going to be offset by the dismantling of the social safety net and other spending cuts, and the Fed seems poised to continue raising rates for the foreseeable future.

There is pretty big potential for a perfect storm of terrible economic policy, and while I concede that all of it may not happen, not all of it needs to happen for there to be a big downturn.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:57:58 PM by Mio

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#163490: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:55:11 PM

[up][up] Or he may screw the pooch so badly that he gets impeached. Or he may conspire with Republicans to tear down the democratic institutions of our country so that the next elections will be as "free" as the ones held in Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Or he may arrange for a nuclear war with China.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:55:28 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163491: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:56:33 PM

[up][up] Until the bubble actually pops, I'd assume things are going to implode just long enough after Trump's presidency for the popular conscience not to blame him for it. Especially if the spending cuts don't actually go through because Trump knows it will hurt his popularity, and as long as the GOP base loves him he's impeachment proof.

[up] The point is we can't count on Trump to fail in ways that will be visible by the time of the 2020 elections.

edited 20th Dec '16 1:59:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#163492: Dec 20th 2016 at 1:57:38 PM

What is that electoral model and why are you so trusting of it, Capsase? "Women can never been presidents; there was never one!" also correctly predicts the election. And why are you ignoring Congress?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163493: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:01:38 PM

[up] This is "Keys to the Whitehouse", it's gotten every election since 1984 correct, though the creator thought 2016 might be the year he needed to refactor it (he's not a fan of Trump obviously), and it's essentially based on the assumption that a presidential election is functionally a referendum on the effectiveness of the incumbent party over the last term.

As far as congress goes, the GOP doesn't have a 2/3rd majority, so they can't override a veto, and as I said earlier, so long as Trump remains popular among the GOP primary base, the party won't dare impeach him.

edited 20th Dec '16 2:03:14 PM by CaptainCapsase

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#163494: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:02:36 PM

[up][up][up]Trump hasn't yet indicated that he is not going to go along with Paul Ryan and his cohorts plans. It's possible that many of the deluded Trump supporters are right and he won't go through with it, but it seems just as possible (if not more) that he really doesn't care and will go along (or he may have even actually wanted that).

That being said I do agree that we can't just expect that Trump will fail and even if he does it may not be a dramatic enough of a failure to be impactful.

edited 20th Dec '16 2:03:50 PM by Mio

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#163495: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:02:53 PM

So? That is not only measured in economic terms. Foreign policy also matters. And actual political issues.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163496: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:04:05 PM

[up] And in terms of foreign policy and other issues, there's no guarantee we'll have readily visible failures within 4 years.

edited 20th Dec '16 2:04:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#163497: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:05:09 PM

We are seeing readily visible foreign policy failures even before Trump's term actually started.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#163498: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:06:07 PM

[up]These are not necessarily failures people actually care about, in fact some will even see them as good things.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163499: Dec 20th 2016 at 2:06:40 PM

[up][up] Only from our perspective. China hawks are cheering, and ISIS will likely be gone one way or another by 2020, which is a plus for Trump even if his administration had almost nothing to do with it. The same goes for the decent economy he's inheriting from Obama.

edited 20th Dec '16 2:07:58 PM by CaptainCapsase

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing

Total posts: 417,856
Top