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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163301: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:52:58 AM

[up]That's probably an extension of the racially charged joke "I take my coffee black — like my men".

Which really would have no place in politics. However, being told not to order coffee black is going too far.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#163302: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:54:54 AM

The whole War on Christmas , gay/atheist/socialist indoctrination and uber liberal colleges needing safe spaces are nothing but the neocons and neoreactionaries taking small incidents and turning them up to eleven to push for their own narrative that the traditional white American Christian values are under threat.

Essentially they remove all the nuance from those incidents and push them as being a major issue and proof there is a war being waged on white males and conservative Christians, in order to create a siege mentality and encroach their beliefs in a public that if exposed long enough to those ideas will adopt the in one way or another. Since it is quite common to see someone complain about being a white male being criminalized or how Christians are being persecuted in the US for their beliefs, I can say it is working.

Now they are seeing how men harassing women under the guise of flirting is no longer acceptable, how saying racist/sexist/homophobic insensitive and offensive statements have consequences, how other people no longer have to put up with their religious beliefs being imposed on them and how minorities don't have to lower their heads and be submissive. The conservatives and reactionaries believe they are wrongfully losing their deserved space in the American society.

Of course this ends up translating in the Go P using those inadequacy feelings for their own gains, since it becomes easy to appeal to their insecurities, fears and bigotry by claiming the reason why they are losing jobs is that those minorities/immigrants are stealing those jobs from them and how the government can't spend on them because the latter are leeching off the system through welfare.

This is incredibly difficult to combat, the Republicans have been engaging this kind of propaganda warfare for years and they managed to convince a good size of the American electorate that progressive policies are anti-working class, anti-white and anti-American.

But the question is how exactly does the Democrat party can reverse this without becoming like the Republicans? The electoral college pretty much means the corn, rust and bible belts are steadily on the hands of the Republicans and they weight more than the blue states where the most of the cosmopolitan and liberal cities and populations are located at.

Even though Obama's policies helped the people in the Rust Belt, the recognition of those policies didn't. How do you reach them? This election showed how easily facts and statistics can be dismissed as biased or lies when they don't agree with their point of view.

Inter arma enim silent leges
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#163303: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:55:57 AM

@Tbone

You're using "Merry Christmas" in an attempt to test the religious beliefs of those you are speaking to and yet you're worried about you being persecuted? How exactly is it any of your business what the beliefs of those you are speaking to are?

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#163304: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:58:15 AM

So...the Russian ambassador in Turkey was just shot...

https://twitter.com/AP/status/810882145870815232

2016 still trying to fuck with us...

New Survey coming this weekend!
SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#163305: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:58:53 AM

We have a Turkish Politics thread for that...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163306: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:01:08 AM

Mod Response time: clocked at 00:00:00:05

eep

edited 19th Dec '16 10:02:05 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#163308: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:04:56 AM

Sept's tag should be the "the Mod who Lurks..."

lmao

New Survey coming this weekend!
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#163309: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:37:12 AM

I never said the media had no bias. I said, and I continue to say, the focus on the media's bias will not be helpful to winning.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#163310: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:48:12 AM

@Sanders believing economic progress would cure all other social ills

That's called the Keystone Theory, and it was a very common tactic of Tumblr leftists back in the 2012 old-school "Social Justice Sally" days, often as a way to defend using bigotry via Misery Poker. Think "it's OK for me as a woman to say nasty things about trans people because women's issues are more important and trans people should stop fighting for trans issues because once sexism is solved transphobia and homophobia will also magically disappear too".

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#163311: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:57:16 AM

[up] ...Hold up. People actually made that kind of argument? That...that is one of the stupidest, shitty, ignorant, and just plain deplorable things I have ever heard.

edited 19th Dec '16 10:57:38 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163312: Dec 19th 2016 at 10:58:08 AM

[up] lol You should take a look at some of the more radical areas of Tumblr, it gets worse!

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#163313: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:08:51 AM

[up][up][up]That's not how bigotry works. You can have a misogynistic black man, a homophobic woman, and a gay racist, and all three are separate, independent bigotries that need to be fought against equally. A person isn't less of a bigot because their targets are gay people rather than women, for instance; numerically different, perhaps, but morally, ethically, and socially just as bad.

edited 19th Dec '16 11:09:20 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163314: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:23:54 AM

@Alley: In terms of the economic situation, tough times definitely exasperate prejudices, erode social cohesion, and make people as a whole less generous and more paranoid about one another. Which is why I maintain it's so important to push economic justice alongside a social justice agenda.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163315: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:28:43 AM

alongside, not "in place of". As long as that is clear.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#163316: Dec 19th 2016 at 11:59:41 AM

I've seen Keystone theory used outright on here for gender issues, with people saying that Men's Issues would automatically be fixed if we just all focused on women's issues.

I'm a feminist but the logic jump required to think that male homelessness and suicide will be fixed as long as we focus on the 'real' (scare quotes for implication that such issues are more real, not for the true fact that they are serious) issues of women's issues...

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163317: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:02:50 PM

A lot of that comes from this bizarre gender-expectations thing. A feminist campaign should be dealing with those Men's issues as well, since part of the campaign is to dismantle gender expectations.

inb4 reeks of No True Scotsman

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#163318: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:04:18 PM

[up] That's the theory. In practice people waste huge amounts of time and energy trying to prove that their chosen cause is more important than everyone else's. Incidentally, that's my main criticism of the modern social justice movement; in my opinion the current degree of fragmentation and microtargeting is undermining the effectiveness of the overarching agenda.

edited 19th Dec '16 12:07:53 PM by CaptainCapsase

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#163319: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:22:07 PM

I'm a feminist but the logic jump required to think that male homelessness and suicide will be fixed as long as we focus on the 'real' (scare quotes for implication that such issues are more real, not for the true fact that they are serious) issues of women's issues...

Hell, even if the keystone theory was entirely true, it wouldn't excuse doing nothing for the people suffering right now.

Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163320: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:35:19 PM

I always try to be cautious in regard to this topic. One occasion I was discussing feminism in popular culture and I asserted my belief that the feminism in Mad Max: Fury Road was more effective than Ghostbusters 2016. Those I was discussing with were incredulous (to say the least) toward my opinion.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#163321: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:42:15 PM

And shocking nobody, the Electoral College votes for Trump.

Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163322: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:45:21 PM

[up] Mind: blowntongue

edited 19th Dec '16 12:45:32 PM by Tbone511

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#163323: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:51:11 PM

Any Republican dissenters at all?

Trump delenda est
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163324: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:51:55 PM

[up] Besides Suprun, I don't think so.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#163325: Dec 19th 2016 at 12:58:52 PM

I was going to ask if anything new happened / came out over the past 24 hours / 10 pages in this thread, but... The EC voted already?!

EDIT: From Yahoo News: "The Electoral College votes will be officially counted during a joint session of Congress on Jan. 6." So how long before the last elector puts his vote in?

edited 19th Dec '16 1:01:01 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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