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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163276: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:01:26 AM

[up][up]this

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#163277: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:01:53 AM

Yeah, as an atheist I'm not going to give people shit for saying "Merry Christmas" to me. I also hope they wouldn't give me shit for saying "Happy Holidays".

edited 19th Dec '16 9:02:37 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163278: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:02:52 AM

Then those are not "politically correct". They are themselves a bigoted approach to life. Religious freedom is constitutionally protected, as far as expressions of those freedoms do not encroach on the freedom of others.

That is my point! smile

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163279: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:04:35 AM

In regards to Hodor's post

Mmhmm. So Bernie Sanders is Danaerys Stormborn, who tried to rule Meereen without the help of the wealthy noble class. Well if he continues down the same story path, he'll eventually accept them as a necessity to keeping the peace.

[up]Then, political correctness is not a problem, since it by nature excludes those things. Yes?

edited 19th Dec '16 9:05:07 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163280: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:05:03 AM

@M84 I wouldn't, interesting about that, I grew up attending private Catholic schools where we were instructed that atheism was an empty, nihilistic belief system. Yet many of the atheists I know are better people than the religious people I know.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:05:46 AM by Tbone511

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#163281: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:05:04 AM

[up][up][up]Unfortunately it seems to be completely detached from the rest of your argument. It's like you were arguing in favor of mayonnaise in salads, and then announcing in favor of olive oil.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:05:29 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#163282: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:05:59 AM

"There are those who view that approach as a ceaseless pander to the minority. The LGBT demographics make up barely 5% of the population and consequently people can view it as politicians being enslaved to a vocal minority."

I kind of have a "wow, just wow" reaction to this (oddly enough I've seen a couple of Leftist commentators stating this exact talking point. Most importantly, the size of a demographic is not important in terms of whether or not their fundamental rights deserve protection.

I'd also say (especially because those Leftist commentators were prepared to go as high as 10%) that there's something really iffy about both insisting that the number is extremely low/dismissing statistics showing higher percentages in conjunction with arguing that it is a demographic not deserving of rights/protection.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163283: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:06:10 AM

[up][up]Not really. It was more like arguing that Muslims are a problem, then when faced with the argument that Radical terrorists are not true Muslims, agreed, then continued to argue that Muslims are a problem.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:06:18 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163284: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:09:01 AM

If we're going to argue that LGBT people don't deserve protection then I guess we should also say that Asian and Jewish people don't. I'm pretty sure most statistics put their population numbers a lot lower than LGBT people.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#163285: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:10:17 AM

No one's banning Christmas — there's no movement to do so, it has never been anything less than a right-wing scare piece, and the holiday itself is loved. As for saying "Happy Holidays" — why the hell not? Christmas this year is also the third day of Hanukkah, and the phrasing is completely harmless. The entire controversy is borne out of a delusional Fiftiesesque desire to see all of our social interaction default to the assume that we're all WASPs.

Also, it doesn't matter that LGBT are 5% of the population. Even if there was a small handful, their rights are still inviolable, and should be treated as such.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:11:26 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#163286: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:15:21 AM

A ban on saying "Merry Christmas" and so forth has never been promoted by the US government, or any state or local government, as far as I'm aware. That stance was taken up by various businesses (department stores, big-box retail franchises, etc.) and imposed on their employees.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#163287: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:16:00 AM

I feel like people don't realize that five percent is still a ridiculously large amount of people. That's double the population of New York City. This isn't even touching the fact that I see numbers as high as ten percent sometimes which would put the number around thirty million.

[up]A lot of colleges have also stopped putting up Christmas decorations. That seems to be a common complaint.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:16:32 AM by Kostya

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163288: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:18:30 AM

Freedom of religion cuts both ways, folks. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. If I, president of a hypothetical private school, don't want to hang up decorations this year, and the board of directors agree, I ought to be free to not hang up Christmas decorations.

Which are mostly pagan in origin anyway.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#163289: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:21:02 AM

I always thought "Happy Holidays" was just a thing Businesses did as a way to attract more Customers of all Religions (and lack-there-of) and Philosophies to buy stuff during the Holiday season to increase profits. You say "Merry Christmas" to someone who's clearly not Christian, and they'll be less likely to come back the next year during the Holidays. You say "Happy Holidays", then they won't be worried and/or intimidated in coming the next year and shopping at the same time of the next year. It'd also help them make profits for these Holidays, like Hannukah, Kwanza, sometimes Ramedan, and whatever other Holidays are during the Christmas time that I don't know.

"Happy Holidays", whatever the reason for it, is not just some stupid "Oh my god, they're trying to turn America into a liberal cesspool!" or anything stupid like that.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#163290: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:22:03 AM

Seriously there is no anti-Christmas movement.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#163292: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:23:29 AM

[up]Then, political correctness is not a problem, since it by nature excludes those things. Yes?

I'm still waiting for a follow-up to this.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#163293: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:23:32 AM

Really the idea of there being one is an idea that was manufactured by the Right. War on Christmas and all that bullshit.

Oh really when?
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163294: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:26:37 AM

[up][up] Sorry! I didn't see that part of your post on my first read through!

If it deters bigotry then it has its uses but as you said only so long as it does not infringe upon the beliefs and views of others.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#163295: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:37:40 AM

The "War on Christmas" schtick has been primarily the doing of the American Family Association (a racist, sexist, antisemitic hate group in "Christian Ministry" guise) over the last decade or so. They get a prime seat on Fox every December and use it to raise funds (usually raking in millions, tax free) for themselves while goading their supporters into harassing or boycotting companies that they dislike.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:42:35 AM by carbon-mantis

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#163296: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:39:16 AM

You say "Merry Christmas" to someone who's clearly not Christian, and they'll be less likely to come back the next year during the Holidays. You say "Happy Holidays", then they won't be worried and/or intimidated in coming the next year and shopping at the same time of the next year.

I don't see what the big deal is, honestly. If some non-Christian is really that offended or intimidated by (largely secular) Christmas displays and verbal polite nothings, then I'd say they need to grow a thicker skin. Or maybe go into therapy.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#163297: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:41:23 AM

The whole war on Christmas show that for all their babbling, conservative do engange in the pointless whinning they acuse democrát of doing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#163298: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:42:36 AM

If you're someone who's genuinely offended when someone says "Happy Holidays" you're not someone worth engaging on any intellectual capacity.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#163299: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:47:27 AM

Indeed, my greetings and farewells of "Merry Christmas" have often been my method of discerning the beliefs of those I am engaging with. This far I haven't been persecuted for it until recently, when I said Merry Christmas to someone they were fine with saying Happy Holidays/Hanukkah back. If they are offended by an innocent difference of terminology then their issues are not merely political in nature.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#163300: Dec 19th 2016 at 9:49:20 AM

Yes, political correctness can go too far. I've been told to not order "black coffee" because black people could find it offensive. I highly doubt that, unless you describe it as being the color of a black person I guess.

However, it can be important as well. The Inuit people of northern Canada really don't like being called Eskimos and ask to be called Inuit. This is not unreasonable because the word Eskimo comes from a different native group, mostly focused in Alaska, and it is literally an insult. It would be like thinking Americans are actually called Leathcheanns. That's Irish for idiot. They don't think it's an insult, they think it's literally what your group is called. Now imagine people continually call you (an American) that to your face and refuse to change it even when you ask them.

That's what political correctness is supposed to be for. When people are using the wrong term, as defined by the group that it's referring to and that group requests that you refer to them in another way.

One issue with the "war on Christmas" people is that they clearly have no idea what persecution actually is. Persecution is saying "you deserve to die for your beliefs, and I will act to make that happen." Having people be mildly offended in a way that they'll probably forget about in a week? That's not persecution. Unless they're actually trying to suppress your beliefs, you are not being persecuted. Now, the Religious Right genuinely is persecuting people for their beliefs and who they are, but that's a different conversation for a different time.

edited 19th Dec '16 9:52:44 AM by Zendervai


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