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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162901: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:48:08 PM

Imagine if Hillary had lost the popular vote by historic margins, but won the EC by a rather suspect hair. Then she backtracked on almost every one of her campaign promises and packed her cabinet with grossly unqualified crooks and business moguls. Then refused to sit through intelligence briefings. And then it turned out that Russia had hacked us to help her win.

The GOP would shut down the entire country.

Democrats need to spine up and stop playing nice. Because playing by the rules only works when the other team is doing the same. And pretty soon the other team is going to be making the rules.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162902: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:50:05 PM

GOP: Extermination of minorities? Probably. Putting party over country? Definitely. But doing something that is against the Holy Constitution of the Gratest Country? They might be horrible people, but they would cling to the "American values" until death, I would think.

Lmao. They don't give a shit about that. They just want their one party state.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#162903: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:56:45 PM

As far as they're concerned the Constitution starts and ends with "... right to bare arms shall not be infringed."

WertyYertrew <33 from on a bus. Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
<33
#162904: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:57:00 PM

One of the reasons one might support an EC revolt is because it would give both parties cause to eliminate or reform the Electoral College. The Democrats have been burned multiple times by splits between popular vote and the electoral college, and losing the presidency by a hair would definitely rile up the Republicans. That bipartisan rage could turn into something that ends up actually being good for democracy.

...Granted, that's unlikely given the Republican majority in Congress, since their goal is less to "ensure fairness" and more to "ensure dominance" at this point.

but the future refused to change. the miracle never happen.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#162905: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:58:01 PM

Which is why, if the election won't be decided by popular vote, at least the electors should be required to vote for who the people wanted
Isn't that what the electors are doing? Electoral votes are determined by the popular vote in each individual state. That's the whole reason being faithless is even a Thing.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162906: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:58:11 PM

Sources say that the electors will not receive an intelligence briefing.

The good news just keeps on coming. It's not like they should be informed on the situation or anything before they hand over the country to Putin.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162907: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:08:54 PM

@Bluefish: As far as we can tell, Trump is not taking orders from the Kremlin, nor has he made an illegal bargin with the Russians. If that were the case, something dramatic would have happened during Obama's press conference, because both would be grounds for, at the minimum, briefing the EC on the findings of our intelligence agencies.

While his pro-Russia bent is inadvisable for a number of reasons, attempting an "opening of Russia" to counter China's growing power is a viable foreign policy strategy, and as far as we can tell, Trump intends to do just that.

edited 16th Dec '16 2:09:05 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#162908: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:15:58 PM

Also, you can bet that the few hawks/Cold Warriors left in the GOP will be willing to work with the Dems to stonewall Trump on Russia. And if you think the CIA is going to stand down on Moscow because Donald Trump tells them to...ha!

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162909: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:17:57 PM

That's probably why Trump wants to replace members of the intelligence community with his own people.

One of the oft-shared rules for surviving an autocracy: your institutions will not save you. If they were going to, they should have done so already.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#162910: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:18:10 PM

I read and I read and I still have no idea if there's any reason to hope for a faithless vote or not.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162911: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:19:07 PM

I have yet to see any sort of convincing indication that the electors will go faithless. It's a pipe dream.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162912: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:23:44 PM

@Rational: The alphabet agencies won't stop spying on Russia, but, were an arrangement to be reached with both parties acting in good faith (and I don't think either party is trustworthy here), there would be a mutual stand-down to the sort of spying that occurs between the US and other major countries, rather than the increasingly bold acts of espionage.

As far as congress goes, the executive branch has very broad authority in the realm of foreign policy. He could unilaterally revoke US sanctions against Russia with an executive order, halt US support to Syrian rebels with another, and take measures to escalate tensions with China all without having to consult congress.

edited 16th Dec '16 2:25:22 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#162913: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:28:41 PM

I doubt that Trump will able to purge the CIA to any extent. Far more competent men have tried and failed.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#162914: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:35:59 PM

Most of the Intelligence Agencies will be insulated, by design-only the directors are political appointments, and those agencies have a long history of working around incompetent or partisan directors. The FBI is a lost cause though-everything in the Bureau's history suggests it will be more of the same, being the most easily influenced and controlled by partisans.

ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#162915: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:37:41 PM

So there's nothing to do? We're dead? 2016 was the year the United States stopped existing in any meaningful sense?

Fuck everything.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#162916: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:40:47 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162918: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:52:27 PM

Part of me is honestly wondering if I should just take a raincheck on this thread for a while. Oh, not because all the news is too depressing and dismal, no; I'm a tough cookie. It's because just about everyone in the thread is acting like a damn suicide case, and it's gotten to the point where it's borderline infuriating. If all you're going to do is piss and moan about how awful things are and that there's no point of going forward or doing anything instead of doing something productive, then why the hell are you even still in this thread?

edited 16th Dec '16 2:53:40 PM by kkhohoho

ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#162919: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:53:17 PM

[up][up][up] You don't know what I'm doing to help, so you come off it.

We're not in control of ourselves anymore. We've essentially elected Vladimir Putin president, and there are neo-Nazis fucking shit up and harassing people out on the streets. Our head of state is a racist reality TV host with zero political experience who hangs out with genocide apologists and advocates. If there's any realistic reason to have hope that things will get better after today, I'd love to hear it.

No, seriously. I'd love to hear it.

[up] There are very good reasons to be depressed and upset right now.

edited 16th Dec '16 2:55:13 PM by ThriceCharming

Madrugada MOD Since: Jan, 2001
#162920: Dec 16th 2016 at 2:58:55 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162921: Dec 16th 2016 at 3:02:40 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#162922: Dec 16th 2016 at 3:02:59 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162923: Dec 16th 2016 at 3:05:30 PM

[up] Russia did not tamper with the votes, they gave leaked documents to wikileaks that were rather embarrassing for the Clinton camp, and that's all that happened as far as we know. It's also a country of more than 140 million people, not some Always Chaotic Evil Horde From the East.

While Russia's foreign policy agenda diverges from that of the United States, I must reiterate that Putin is no Hitler. All things considered he's a fairly rational geopolitical actor, and definitely an adherent to the realist school of international relations. In several cases him having undue influence on Trump's foreign policy would be positive for global stability; there's no way Russia would approve of the United States invading Iran as the neocons hope to do.

edited 16th Dec '16 3:12:35 PM by CaptainCapsase

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162924: Dec 16th 2016 at 3:07:29 PM

[up]x4 Yes. Yes there are. Which in turn are even better reasons for actually doing something. If you're that depressed and that upset, than what better reason is there to fight back and take a stand for what you believe in? I already do that in my own small way, and you can bet I'll keep doing it and more in the years to come. If you're depressed, then fine, be depressed. But that's no reason to let it keep you down or out of the fight, and every reason to get back into it.

[up][up]Russia did not tamper with the votes. When the news says they 'hacked the election', they don't literally mean that they actually hacked the election. They hacked and leaked various documents and influenced the election in certain ways, but they did not directly tamper with the votes. Also what Capase said.[nja]

edited 16th Dec '16 3:08:24 PM by kkhohoho

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#162925: Dec 16th 2016 at 3:11:08 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.

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