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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162876: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:20:25 PM

Do you actually think a few subtle hints made during his predecessors' final press conference are going to improve Trump's foreign policy?

Anybody who's still clinging to any semblance of "Trump might suddenly start being presidential" has their head in the sand.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#162877: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:21:47 PM

[up] Well, no. But we can at least hope he won't be as reckless now.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:22:05 PM by Grafite

Life is unfair...
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162878: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:23:45 PM

Those two sentences are contradictory. Trump acting less brazenly reckless would improve his foreign policy. And a few passive-aggressive comments from Obama are not going to suddenly make that happen.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#162879: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:25:48 PM

[up][up][up][up] "but I just don't see the same thing occuring in a nation like the USA in this age of information."

We didn't think it could happen in our country any of the times it did, that's the point: Yes, it can happen anywhere, and it's easier than it seems before it does.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:27:05 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#162880: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:32:09 PM

I feel that the fact that the CIA and the FBI are now agreement about what Russia did what it's intentions were was the far bigger bombshell then anything Obama said. If anything his press-conference kind of watered that down.

Still, I can't blame him for doing it the way he has. There is really much he can do except be "the adult".

ThriceCharming Since: Nov, 2013
#162882: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:33:38 PM

Question: if the Electoral College were to oust Trump, would they need a specific number of Republican electors to cast a faithless vote, or does political affiliation not matter?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#162883: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:34:30 PM

It doesn't matter. The magic number is 270. But if most or all of the 'defecting' electors are pledged to Clinton, it won't stop Trump from getting to that number. It only matters if a significant number of defectors are pledged to Trump.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:34:55 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#162884: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:35:04 PM

Democratic electoral voters are already not voting for Trump.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162885: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:35:49 PM

Edit: Also, Wanderer, I'm sorry for what happened with your country, but I just don't see the same thing occuring in a nation like the USA in this age of information.

It can and is happening here. The GOP is turning into an authoritarian party before our very eyes. In NC, they are currently in the process of stripping a democratically elected leader of his power for no other reason than to maintain their grip on the state. They're arresting protestors and journalists.

The GOP has talked about criminalizing peaceful protest. They're threatening electors. People who talk about exterminating Muslims are being invited to Trump Tower.

America is not special. The more people say "it can't happen here," the more likely it is that exactly that will happen here.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:36:47 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#162886: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:36:07 PM

[up][up]Even the ones in states Trump won? I was under the impression that electors within each state were mixed party.

Also, re: North Carolina, could any attempt to reduce the new guy's power be taken to the courts?

edited 16th Dec '16 1:38:34 PM by sgamer82

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#162887: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:38:07 PM

[up] Again, affiliation is irrelevant. Sure, if an elector leans Democrat but is in a state that voted for Trump, and they chose to go faithless, it could swing the result, but I don't think it works that way. As I understand it, each party has its particular stable of electors, and the vote determines which of them go to the EC.

At issue here is the conscience of the Republican electors sent by states that went red.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:39:08 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Yinyang107 from the True North (Decatroper) Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
#162888: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:38:26 PM

[redacted because i have no clue wtf i'm saying]

edited 16th Dec '16 1:40:21 PM by Yinyang107

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162889: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:39:40 PM

America is not special. The more people say "it can't happen here," the more likely it is that exactly that will happen here.

You know, someone actually linked to a book with that exact title based on the idea that America became a fascist totalitarian state.

I haven't read it and only just now found out about it but if the trope page is accurate a lot of it is uncomfortably prescient.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#162890: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:39:47 PM

[up][up] Nope. The parties pick the electors for each state ahead of time, and the party that wins the state sends their electors. On top of that, many of the states Trump won have laws on the books to punish faithless electors.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:40:13 PM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#162891: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:39:55 PM

GOP: Extermination of minorities? Might be. Putting party over country? Definitely. But doing something that is against the Holy Constitution of the Greatest Country? They might be horrible people, but they would cling to the "American values" until death, I would think.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:41:44 PM by Grafite

Life is unfair...
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#162892: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:40:21 PM

As I understand it, each party has its particular stable of electors, and the vote determines which of them go to the EC vote.
You mean which electors even get to vote at all is determined by the college result?

edited 16th Dec '16 1:40:37 PM by sgamer82

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#162893: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:41:45 PM

[up]]up] The GOP has spent the last few decades proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don't actually give a damn about "American values" or the Constitution, they just pay lip service to them in order to win votes.

[up] Pretty much. The electors in some states can change their votes during the actual session of the College without penalty (for example, in 2004, at least one elector accidentally voted for John Edwards, Kerry's running mate [and misspelled his name, no less], and was not punished for not giving his vote to Kerry), but most of them were picked for party loyalty, so they tend not to do that anyway.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:44:03 PM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#162894: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:42:09 PM

My biggest fear with the EC going faithless isn't so much in the immediate (though there would be catastrophe), but in the long term. We might end up seeing many more electorates going faithless in the future, which would call into question the point of voting in the first place if that candidate won't even win. Plus electorates might start going off of party alignment and not their duty, which could really hurt things too.

(No really coherent, but I'm in a rush to type this)

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#162895: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:42:40 PM

No, each state party has a slate of candidates they pick as they wish. If their candidate wins in a particular state, they get to select who becomes elector. So the California Democratic Party will send 55 electors to the EC and the California Republican Party none. Vice versa with fewer electors in Texas.

And I am fairly sure that a lot of states criminalize going "faithless".

edited 16th Dec '16 1:43:38 PM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162896: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:43:13 PM

The GOP are utterly without principles. If they gave a shit about the Constitution, they wouldn't be working to repress freedom of speech or aligning themselves with a foreign dictatorship.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162897: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:44:30 PM

[up][up][up] In my opinion it's more of a reason why the EC is sort of a bad system, because as I understand it it allows people with enough cheek to completely subvert the will of the people.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:44:44 PM by Draghinazzo

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#162898: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:44:41 PM

Aren't they already voting by party alignment? That's supposed to be the whole reason Republican electors going faithless is a big deal and Democratic ones aren't.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#162899: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:45:04 PM

[up][up][up]When one side plays fair and the other doesn't, the contest is not going to go as the honest folks wish. Especially if the referee (the media) is distracted by the shiny scandals and isn't doing its job.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:45:21 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#162900: Dec 16th 2016 at 1:46:15 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] Which is why, if the election won't be decided by popular vote, at least the electors should be required to vote for who the people wanted. Going faithless is not going to do anything this election apart from sending a message, and it just creates confusion and leads to false hopes.

edited 16th Dec '16 1:47:56 PM by Grafite

Life is unfair...

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