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Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162601: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:00:29 PM

The problem is that vindicating the GOP base's paranoia would just delay the inevitable. In 2020 someone even worse than Trump would pop up and you'd arguably be in an even more terrible position.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162602: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:03:25 PM

[up] Yes, but I don't think a dictatorship from the center is much better than a dictatorship from the right.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#162603: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:04:40 PM

I agree with Rational Insanity: Trump won, and as much as we all don't like it, he deserves at least 4 years to succeed or (most likely) fail (hard). If he fails, then we all get to say "We told you so", then elect someone actually qualified for the job in 2020. If he succeeds... Well, he did it through the worst way possible, but America (and most of us) won't suffer because of it.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#162604: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:05:42 PM

Meh. Hopefully seeing Rogue One tonight will make me forget about Trump for two hours so i can at least pretend the good guys win

New Survey coming this weekend!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162605: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:07:35 PM

Trump's administration is hardly going to be a success by any reasonable metric. Climate change is fucked, civil rights are in jeopardy, embezzling and kleptocracy are going to reign, and it'll generally be corrupt and inefficient. The only question is how the economy will be by the time he leaves.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162606: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:09:36 PM

[up] It might be quite good; he wouldn't be the first Republican President (*cough* Reagan) to run up the deficit in order to fund his tax cuts and leave the bill for a future democrat.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162607: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:12:38 PM

That's what I mean. If he decides to do that the chances of him getting outed in 2020 are much lower I figure since the economy is always extremely important in terms of how well a president's term is received in his time.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:13:07 PM by Draghinazzo

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#162608: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:15:44 PM

If he does that, though, he's going to run into the debt ceiling. Reagan was lucky that the ceiling in his time was set high enough that Congress wasn't running into it every single year. They have to suspend it between November and March and then reset it with the new budget in mind every year now.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:16:19 PM by Zendervai

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#162609: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:16:02 PM

[up][up][up]Unlike Reagan, Trump does not have a Federal Reserve with massive interest rates to relieve or a crumbling geopolitical rival that he can claim victory over.

As far as things going well he has far less going for him then Reagan did, though depending on how things go that may not matter.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:16:27 PM by Mio

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162610: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:18:30 PM

[up][up] The democrats are much less likely to shut down the government over it, meaning it might not be noticed.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162611: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:19:52 PM

I agree with Rational Insanity: Trump won, and as much as we all don't like it, he deserves at least 4 years to succeed or (most likely) fail (hard). If he fails, then we all get to say "We told you so", then elect someone actually qualified for the job in 2020. If he succeeds... Well, he did it through the worst way possible, but America (and most of us) won't suffer because of it.

Trump has proven himself compromised as a leader.

Internal political destabilization might in the end be better than the world destabilization that a Trump presidency might bring. We still haven't even healed from the damage Bush has done to our country. We're going to need several decades to fix Trump's mistakes.

Climate change can't wait 8 years to fight. That's an existential crisis that we must tackle on now.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:20:33 PM by MadSkillz

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#162612: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:20:53 PM

[up][up] Some Republicans will certainly make a fuss over it though, especially if the government's only spending and no 'real' cuts are made.

[up] I don't think advocating for causing turmoil in a country, let alone a Nuclear Global Power like the United States, is a good idea at all. Yes, Trump so far has shown himself to be a terrible leader, but he's still the one who won. We have to respect that, as much as we hate it. Plus, him being a terrible leader will become evident to everyone, even his followers, once he's elected and him and his Republican buddies do things that screw everyone over. We have to have them lead us so that we're reminded how terrible they are, and then they get kicked out and everything gets fixed.

[down] Wow, he wants to turn the US into Venezuela? I have been getting Chavez-esque vibes from him for a while now.

I'm positive, though, that the Tea Partiers aren't going to simply blindly follow Trump, considering they didn't even play ball with their fellow Republicans when they needed to pass a budget multiple times. Trump will have to play ball with them, or they will hold up Congress again.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:30:09 PM by DingoWalley1

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162613: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:22:40 PM

[up] Trump intends to make up the gap through massively increasing oil revenue, and Republicans didn't speak out against Bush massively running up the deficit, it's one of those things that are "Okay if you're a Republican".

edited 15th Dec '16 7:25:24 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#162614: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:32:38 PM

Pretty much anything is allowed if you are a Republican.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#162615: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:35:15 PM

The last time someone voiced the idea that the president is above all things and has to be trusted no matter what, it was Nixon who said this. So, no, I don't think that we have to give Trump a chance being the president if enough evidence piles up that he is either unfit for the job or involved in illegal activities or has connection which would compromise him - or all of the above.

It is not just that Russia might have meddled in the election, Trump openly encouraged them to do so in one of his speeches and now he has a close friend of Putin in his cabinet. Those are not minor issues.

There is a reason why there are mechanism to impeach a democratic elected leader. Because we are not lemmings, we have the right to balk if someone wants to lead us down the cliff (in fact, not even lemmings are that stupid). It is unusual to impeach one before he has even taken office, but if there is a sound case for doing so, it has to be done.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:37:30 PM by Swanpride

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162616: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:37:27 PM

I don't think advocating for causing turmoil in a country, let alone a Nuclear Global Power like the United States, is a good idea at all. Yes, Trump so far has shown himself to be a terrible leader, but he's still the one who won. We have to respect that, as much as we hate it.

The Russian hack has discredited the entire election.

Plus, him being a terrible leader will become evident to everyone, even his followers, once he's elected and him and his Republican buddies do things that screw everyone over. We have to have them lead us so that we're reminded how terrible they are, and then they get kicked out and everything gets fixed.

No, I don't think that might even be enough. He's built a cult of personality and so far he's been impervious to facts. Nothing sticks to him. He can just lay the blame at Democrats and his supporters would eat it up and radicalize even further.

Not to mention all the gerrymandering he'd do in Republican favor and the voter suppression that Republicans are becoming and more and more enamoured with.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#162617: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:37:50 PM

[up][up][up]Yup. :/

edited 15th Dec '16 7:38:14 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#162618: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:39:00 PM

[up][up][up] Now now, I didn't say we had to trust him, and by all means, you should never trust an elected official until they actually govern. I'm saying that the choice is either Anarchy and Chaos because a successful attempt was made to stop Trump (which I am wholeheartedly against), or we accept the pill we have to swallow, let Trump run the country (probably terribly) for 4 years, while making sure Democrats take over at least the House in 2018, and vote Trump out in 2020. The 2nd option sucks, yes, but it will not result in Anarchy and Chaos (hopefully), it will result in a unification of anyone who isn't a Neo-Nazi or Trumpeteer against Trump and gives whoever takes over after Trump a strong mandate to do whatever is necessary to fix America.

[up][up] Things might not stick to Trump personally, but most of the people who voted for him did so out of economic 'desperation', not out of blind ignorance or devotion to him. The minute everything turns to hell, they will leave him, because they always blame the President when things go to hell.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:41:20 PM by DingoWalley1

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162619: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:43:55 PM

Things might not stick to Trump personally, but most of the people who voted for him did so out of economic 'desperation', not out of blind ignorance or devotion to him. The minute everything turns to hell, they will leave him, because they always blame the President when things go to hell.

I hear that didn't work with Reagan who people have mythologized as one of the greats.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162620: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:46:35 PM

Trump isn't Reagan. Reagan won in a landslide. Trump won by the smallest margin ever. Even the slightest shift against Trump will sink him, but Reagan would've taken an enormous shake-up to take down.

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#162621: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:46:36 PM

@ Swanpride: there is virtually no chance of Trump being impeached by a Republican Congress no matter he does, as I suggested in my above post. If and when there is sufficient evidence to remove him, it will be at the hands of a domestic intelligence agency under military purview, most likely the NSA; Trump would be arrested at gunpoint with a writ countersigned by the Supreme Court. And Trump would be the first of numerous GOP leaders; they hitched their star to him, and part of endorsing him was putting their signature in writing after Trump openly called on Russia to interfere. The only ones likely to survive that are those like Mc Cain who have pushed for the investigation.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:47:25 PM by ViperMagnum357

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#162622: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:48:28 PM

I hear that didn't work with Reagan who people have mythologized as one of the greats.

I could literally give you a list of differences between Reagan and Trump, but I honestly hope I don't have to start listing various reasons as to what makes Reagan different then Trump.

[up][up] Gilphon has listed one already.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#162623: Dec 15th 2016 at 7:50:25 PM

[up][up][up][up]Reagan also had a huge economic upturn going into his next election which Trump may not have.

Whether or not Trump's base will turn on him is also rather uncertain. There are plenty of real "deplorables" who will eat up anything he says as long he keeps "them" down and out. On the other hand there do seem to be some folk who genuinely did not believe that Trump was going to dismantle the social safety net including the ACA. Whether they can be bought off with racist rhetoric is uncertain.

[up][up]I don't think you would find many in the military who would go along with what is essentially a military coup. Not to mention that Trump is pretty popular with large segments of the military right now with his appointment to Sec Def.

edited 15th Dec '16 7:53:24 PM by Mio

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#162624: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:11:55 PM

Preventing Trump taking office after the electoral college vote would require force, that would likely lead to civil war and the military splitting in two.

You're afraid of what Trump might do with a nuke now? Imagine what he'd do if he was kept from the White House by force and had nuclear armed parts of the military join with him, he might well nuke LA to "teach them traitors a lesson".

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162625: Dec 15th 2016 at 8:16:29 PM

Please listen to yourselves, go back to 2009 and look at Republican reactions to Obama's election. We are not at the point where condoning military coups against Trump are even remotely okay.

edited 15th Dec '16 8:17:03 PM by CaptainCapsase


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