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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#162376: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:22:28 PM

That stuff about Romney helped me get a little bit more respect for him, even if the fact that he apologized at all isn't so great.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162377: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:22:56 PM

In terms of American leaders, the worst aspects of Nixon and Bush II in one person seems to be the best comparison.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#162378: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:22:58 PM

Governor Brown also talked smack on Rick Perry in the same speech:

Later, he jabbed at former Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who before becoming Trump’s pick for Energy Department secretary tried to poach jobs from California. “Rick, I got some news for you,” Brown said. “California is growing a hell of a lot faster than Texas. And we’ve got more sun than you have oil.”

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#162379: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:23:04 PM

I hate to characterize the woman as a Gold Digger, but it's the only reason that makes sense to me. I don't think she's particularly dumb, either. She may be too clever by half.

The fact that she can stay by his side after all the things he's said and done makes me question her integrity.

Do not obey in advance.
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#162380: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:26:11 PM

Evangelical Tony Perkins condemns Sec. of State pick Rex Tillerson, claiming he was as Liberal as Obama. So, we might not be having Tillerson as the Sec. of State, because some of the more Social Conservative Republicans will probably be listening to what Tony Perkins says...

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162381: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:26:19 PM

When he starts actual international wars, then you can break out the A-listers like Amin, Bokassa or Al-Bashir. Or, even Mugabe. But, I doubt the staying power, if only due to age

I doubt Donald will want to stay more than 8 years anyways. That's plenty of time to loot the US, get the attention and power trip, and then leave. If he needs a new puppet I'm sure Putin can find another one.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:28:18 PM by Draghinazzo

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#162382: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:26:51 PM

[up][up][up]Trump will trade her in for a new model in a couple years, just watch.

EDIT: pagetopper

edited 14th Dec '16 5:28:01 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#162383: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:27:08 PM

[up][up][up][up]Her loyalty makes me question her sanity. Though I suppose a healthy dose of fear accompanies that. Whatever facade Trump had put together before now, he is what he is for the world to see, if they care to look.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:27:33 PM by ViperMagnum357

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162384: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:29:26 PM

I don't think any of what he's done so far is a facade. Even assuming he's smarter than he lets on it's not exactly contradictory with him being a boorish manbaby.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#162385: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:34:01 PM

RE: Trump comparisons

A few of the Latin American dictators make for good comparisons at least when it comes to the kind of kleptocratic, business-oriented, neofascist states they ran. I saw a meme that joked that Castro died laughing at the American election of Batista reincarnated, and I get where that was coming from.

That said, I don't know that this sort of comparison is even necessary. Trump is Trump and that's more than bad enough. He's a corrupt, crony capitalist with a neofascistic worldview and foreign policy that boils down to "those who say nice things about me personally get my support." He's a conman, a serial sexual offender, and may be boning his own daughter (at the very least he wants to). He's a narcissist in at least the colloquial sense and probably the psychological one, a pathological liar, and a bully. He has repeatedly expressed his admiration for leaders like Saddam Hussein and Vladimir Putin, and has in effect promised to rule like them. He's an unsalvageable ruin of a human being and I don't know that there's anything more to be said.

@Elle

Much as I disagree with Julian on a lot Ayn Rand isn't really one of them. The protagonists of Atlas Shrugged essentially helped to accelerate the collapse of society because they had lost their special snowflake status. It's not hard at all to see how Paul Ryan and other Republican elites have taken that message and run with it—their efforts to "starve the beast" are quite Randian in nature.

It's also hard to claim that Objectivism is against exploiting others, when the protagonists not only exploit others, but Rand herself was all in favour of, among other things, the American government's annexation of Native territory, insisting that the Natives had no right to the land because they were not using it to its potential. That's an attitude that is all about exploiting others—and one we again, easily see reflected in the attitudes of people like Ryan, and for that matter, people like Trump.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#162386: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:34:18 PM

I'd actually be horrified (but not particularly surprised) if Trump divorced Melania and sought a new trophy wife. If it ever came to that, I wish Melania would write a tell-all book.

Wouldn't it cause a lot of controversy if a sitting President got divorced or was served with divorce papers?

Do not obey in advance.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162387: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:34:59 PM

“A lot of people say, ‘What the hell are you doing, Brown? You’re not a country,’ ” the governor said, to laughter.

“Well, judged by measures of gross domestic product of over $2.2 trillion, we’re the fifth or sixth economy in the world. And we’ve got a lot of firepower ... And we will persevere. Have no doubt about that.”

“We will set the stage. We’ll set the example,” Brown added. “And whatever Washington thinks they are doing, California is the future

hashtag President Moonbeam

Now I want to see Jerry beat up Rick.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:37:04 PM by MadSkillz

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#162388: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:35:06 PM

[up][up]It should, but it won't. The press doesn't care.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:35:25 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#162389: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:37:15 PM

Jerry Brown's "California's got more Sun than you have oil" is way better and accurate than "Our claws are as sharp and long as yours".

I have no need or desire to sell Rand to anyone but it does get tiring seeing it ruthlessly demonized, and Julian appears to have taken her as the demon harbinger of all that is wrong with America.

I see it as part of the long messianic strain in America that is part of the appeal of Scientology and other fringe religions and also part of the reason why Rand and Objectivism is part of that. And it has influenced bad policy and bad attitudes. I do have nothing but contempt for Rand on an intellectual and artistic level and the little I read of her personal life suggests that she wasn't a nice person but even if she was, I would still dislike her for the former reasons.

Having said that, let me add a caveat...

I became more assertive where before I mostly accepted others' rules without question and thought harder about when it was and wasn't right to obey, I pushed harder for self-reliance.I came to question my faith and realize that submitting to God's will over mine was not how I wanted to live.

Rand and her ideas are not the first instance of otherwise heterodox ideas and concepts having positive fruit. You have many such instances. Carl Jung for instance is not taken seriously by actual psychologists any more and his ideas haven't dated well but he did inspire and influence a few good artists and writers. And Rand inspired a good movie, The Fountainhead (which she hated) and a great artist like Steve Ditko and also a decent, if overpraised, FPS Shooter videogame. That influence is not entirely positive but it's there, and I commend you for finding something useful in Rand.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#162390: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:44:11 PM

It'd be kind of funny if California pulled the "state's rights" card. Not even seriously, but just for the sake of irony.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162391: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:45:21 PM

Well, it would be entirely consistent with the GOP's ideology of "BIG GOVERNMENT BAD HULK SMAAAAAAAASH", but they only care about that insofar as it suits their needs.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#162392: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:47:05 PM

[up][up] Yes, it would be funny. For about five seconds, before Trump's administration and the GOP-run Congress declared war on it and slaughtered its population (possibly with drones, or with a nuke or twelve).

edited 14th Dec '16 5:54:09 PM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#162393: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:47:40 PM

[up][up] IOKIYAR

To them, Big Government is only bad if a Democrat is in the Oval Office.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:50:05 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162394: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:50:23 PM

It'd be kind of funny if California pulled the "state's rights" card. Not even seriously, but just for the sake of irony.

That's what we are doing.

Speaking with reporters after Trump on Tuesday confirmed that Rex Tillerson, chief executive of Exxon Mobil, was his pick for secretary of state, Brown said he took some comfort in what has traditionally been part of the GOP’s worldview: bedrock support for states acting in their own interests on issues such as environmental protection.

“One of the things that does influence the Republican Party is respect for states’ rights,” he said.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:50:37 PM by MadSkillz

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162395: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:55:40 PM

California's going to invoke its new anti-Trump weapon due to Democrats having the supermajority in the state.

As they suit up for battle against the Trump administration, Democrats who dominate California’s Legislature vow to unleash one of the superpowers of holding a supermajority: the ability to enact laws immediately.

An underplayed consequence of the fact that they won two-thirds of the seats in both houses last month is that—if they stick together—California Democrats have the required margin to pass a bill with an “urgency” clause. Unlike ordinary bills passed by a simple majority, bills with urgency clauses take effect the minute the governor signs them, and cannot be stalled by voters who might try to prevent them from becoming law by forcing a ballot referendum.

By passing urgency bills, Democrats in Sacramento predict they will be able to act fast—counter-punching in real time—if Republican President-elect Donald Trump signs federal laws or adopts policies they perceive as hostile to California. Legislative Democrats hope to demonstrate the old adage that there’s strength in numbers when it comes to issues over which they are at odds with Trump, including the environment, healthcare, and particularly immigration.

Acknowledging that most potential uses for the urgency maneuver are speculative at this point, de Leon’s top aide said he could imagine using it to respond if Congress were to repeal or restrict the Endangered Species Act, causing ripple effects on California water policy. The Democratic-controlled Legislature could respond by passing a similar bill creating state endangered species protection, said Dan Reeves, de León’s chief of staff.

“It’s a game of chess: They make a move, we make a move,” he said. “We have the ability to almost respond in real time, as opposed to having a six-month delay to our counter-punch.”

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162396: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:57:04 PM

California, please don't secede. We're going to need their help in the years to come. And I say that with complete sincerity.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#162397: Dec 14th 2016 at 6:04:38 PM

An actual "Calexit" would be extremely unfeasible and has no real legal precedent. We can't really compare it to Brexit either.

Brexit — idiotic as it might be — at least relies on something that is included in the original EU treaty, Article 50. And the EU isn't actually a nation unto itself anyway — it's more of an uneasy arranged cluster marriage. Yeah, the UK leaving is akin to a rather unpleasant divorce, since the original prenup was so badly written.

Hell, the UK itself isn't actually a country — it's yet another complicated political and economic union between nations. And it's arguably an even more dysfunctional arranged marriage than the EU itself despite having far fewer nations in it — the dynamic between England and Scotland alone...there's a reason the first "Scexit" attempt last year only barely failed. The second one that may follow Brexit may not fail — especially since Scotland wants to stay in the EU.

edited 14th Dec '16 6:11:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#162398: Dec 14th 2016 at 6:05:06 PM

The thing is "state's rights" have always cut both ways. Like in the run-up to the Civil War, the South got angry that the Northern States protected and encouraged runaway slaves...the whole Underground Railroad thing. That led them to pass the Fugitive Slave act. Basically the South used the Central Government to override the states rights of the North so as to protect their "property". "State's rights" is always a code-word and mumbo-jumbo weasel-word.

And the fact is that the US Government doesn't have the overwhelming national bureaucracy and machinery...individual states have that, and State Legislature meets more often, and passes more bills and initatives, than the Congress does. So the consensus of the states is very important anyway, and I don't see how with a country as large and a population as big as America, it can be another way.

Empowering the Central Government and enlarging it was important during the Great Depression but by the end, Congress gutted many New Deal projects and ideas, chiefly WPA (Works progress administration).

Wouldn't it cause a lot of controversy if a sitting President got divorced or was served with divorce papers?

Well it shouldn't ideally. I mean the idea that a President represent the American Nuclear Family has always struck me as very primitive. I mean ideally it should be about policies and not this neo-royalism which ultimately recycles gendered and patriarchal tropes. In France, Nicolas Sarkozy divorced his first wife while in office as President and married Carla Bruni...and his successor Francois Hollande didn't even marry, he had a First Girlfriend, and while in office dumped her and got another one. Now of course this is France but more or less the idea that the French President represent the French family is absurd there...it's been absurd since President de Gaulle and his wife (Tante Yvonne) tried to pull that off and made themselves the object of mockery.

I despise Trump for everything he says and does, but him being a philanderer and womanizer and not a "family person" is not really something I have issues with. It's his policies, his rhetoric and his bragging of sexual assault that I have issues with.

That said, I don't know that this sort of comparison is even necessary. Trump is Trump and that's more than bad enough. He's a corrupt, crony capitalist with a neofascistic worldview and foreign policy that boils down to "those who say nice things about me personally get my support."

Well trying to analyse how he works and operates and seeking continuity is one way to help us predict or foresee and expect how he might work. I compare Trump to Hitler because he operates in a manner that is uncannily like how Ian Kershaw described how Hitler worked, and Trump truly does fit Hitler's profile more than anyone. The fit and match is not 100% exact of course but if it hits 75%, then humanly speaking the shoe fits. That's how comparison works...Hitler worked because he attracted a bunch of careerists/opportunists and other venal apparatchiks who promoted themselves by advancing crazy and radical schemes, and Hitler encouraged that by his "charismatic" way of operating. Charisma in the Max-Weber/Kershaw sense where basically laws don't matter, institutions and traditions don't matter, only personal appeals to the man does. Now Hitler differs from Trump in that Trump is cynical whereas Hitler was a true believer, Trump is corrupt whereas Hitler wasn't personally corrupt, Trump is a sleazebag whereas Hitler was prudish and asexual, so that falls in the missing 25%...but it's still striking and dangerous as an indication for how Trump would work.

Basically Trump won't be able to normalize and moderate himself. He will propose a lot of radical and dangerous ideas, and senators and representatives who advance that agenda will find more favour than those who don't. On top of that, Trump will also be doing these rallies even as President and use twitter as a bully pulpit, and expand personal grudges. So you can expect Shirley Sherrod incidents on a bigger scale.

TropesForever God forbid women do anything from wait where is she Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
God forbid women do anything
#162399: Dec 14th 2016 at 6:11:28 PM

So Trump is Hitler without his virtues?

thebeatles.com/careers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#162400: Dec 14th 2016 at 6:15:05 PM

[up] Hitler at least didn't use "bone spurs" to duck out of a war.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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