TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#162351: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:23:56 PM

That's honestly seems more likely to undue him then any of his awful policy proposals. Hopefully there is no actual incest involved.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:35:54 PM by Mio

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#162352: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:26:31 PM

[up] I would be pretty amazed if there isn't actual incest stuff going on...there is definitely a lot of weirdness there. It's also an amazing sexist Double Standard in general.

Again More Hitler-School of Management Schenanigans from Trump

Donald Trump sat in his office at Trump Tower on Dec. 2 facing the most important choice of his transition to the presidency, and his indecision had set off a war among his top aides.

Some favored Mitt Romney, who had trashed Trump during the campaign. Many wanted the ultimate loyalist, Rudolph W. Giuliani. Others preferred Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) or retired Gen. David Petraeus. Trump, who hated being pressured when making important decisions, insisted that he needed more time. He seemed to have misgivings about all of them.

Then, by happenstance, Trump welcomed into his office a man who has served presidents of both parties, Robert M. Gates. Trump asked his guest, a former CIA director and former defense secretary, what he thought of the four candidates. After Gates ran through his thoughts, it seemed that Trump was “looking for a way out,” a person familiar with the session said.

Trump asked whether there was someone else to consider.

“I recommend Rex,” Gates told Trump, referring to Rex Tillerson, the chief executive of Exxon Mobil. Gates said in an interview that he had not gone to the meeting intending to recommend Tillerson, and he did not recommend anyone else. Separately, on the previous day, former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice had proposed Tillerson to Vice President-elect Mike Pence. Rice and Gates, who run a consulting firm that counts Exxon Mobil as a client, had jointly concluded that Tillerson might give Trump a fresh alternative. ... The result was an unexpected decision, nominating as the country’s top diplomat a multinational corporate chief executive who had been on nobody’s shortlist for the job. It provided an object lesson in the decision-making process and leadership style of a president-elect who has never worked in government and is applying his un­or­tho­dox style to decisions that could shape the world.

Basically Trump is building his power by charismatic authority...not listening to people inside his party, his advisors and willing to go off-script at any moment just so he can do something new. That was how Hitler worked.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162353: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:28:37 PM

U.S. officials now say that Putin was personally involved in U.S. hack.

Storm's coming, if you ask me.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:28:46 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162354: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:31:29 PM

Ivanka is going to be working in the White House in a space reserved for the First Lady.

"We shall await you atop the Trump Wall," said Melisandre Ivanka. We, he heard, not he. It's as they say. This is his true queen First Lady, not the one he left at Eastwatch Trump Tower.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:32:00 PM by MadSkillz

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#162355: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:31:35 PM

Something something Watchmen, something something "save us", something something "No".

I'm more and more convinced by the day that the best we can hope for is for Trump to do something truly indefensible (though the Republicans keep pushing the goalposts for that back further and further), then metaphorically grab the Republicans by the scruff of their metaphorical necks and rub their faces in the metaphorical shit. It still won't teach them a lesson, but maybe people will stop voting for them if they smell as wretched as they are.

^^I can't believe anymore that even this will sway things. Truth is what ignorance makes of it now.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:32:40 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#162356: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:32:55 PM

The GOP is unlikely to turn on Trump precisely because he will drag them down with him.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162357: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:33:07 PM

We could get a video of Trump killing and eating a puppy in the middle of Times Square, and half his base would go "he tells it like it is" while the other half went "fake news!"note 

Edit: Well, there's a pagetopper for you.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:33:44 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#162358: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:35:41 PM

December 19 is make or break time, we'll know if these Russian allegations mean anything or is just one last desperate attempt. Once the EC validates Trump's election, then this is just mere details until the Inaugration.

Trump is fully capable of doing a 180 on Russia, since all his fellow kleptocrats care more about money. Once in government they have control over the media and NSA so if the Russians do retaliate with leaks and blackmail material on RNC and Trump, it probably won't hurt them as much in leverage...and Putin might well regret his alliance with Trump the way Stalin regretted the M-R Pact, well okay, Stalin knew damn well Hitler would invade soon and used the Pact as grace period for rebuilding much like Chamberlain did but I am not sure if Putin is prepared for that reversal.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162359: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:37:26 PM

It's worth noting, by the way, that Tillerson could very well face a tricky confirmation from the Senate- playing up the Russian connection could make a lot of GOP senators uncomfortable with him. So it wasn't a particularly wise decision, politically.

Which makes sense, given that it was made by a guy with zero experience playing the politics game and little experience with people being able to overrule his decisions.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#162360: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:39:21 PM

@Gilphon: Not figured sensibly, no. But they'll confirm him all the same, I'm sure.

Edit: Iiii need to step away for a while. I'm not in a good mental space for this cavalcade of bullshit.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:39:48 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#162361: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:40:16 PM

I think the GOP will definitely reject Tillerson and a couple of other Trump-appointees, but they won't reject all of them surely.

The Goldman Sachs guys will stay, Devos will stay (she's a Pence-approved Theocrat), but Rick Perry and Tillerson will not be approved.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#162362: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:41:29 PM

[up][up]What makes you so sure? Some of them are already really being really critical of Tillerson for exactly that reason, and the Senate is close enough to tied that we only need a few desenters.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:41:45 PM by Gilphon

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162363: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:42:37 PM

Trump's administration suggested they're going to eliminate NASA's earth science program which would mean failing to launch, shutting down, or turning over the suite of satellites that provide the trove of data NASA releases about the Earth and its land, oceans, and air. That data set is critical for tracking hurricanes, coastal erosion, glacial melting, land use, wildfires, and even the approach of solar storms. Scientists across disciplines - and the world - have since told Business Insider that such a move would hurt their ability to do research.

California's governor responded:

California Gov. Jerry Brown gave a fiery speech on climate change policy on Wednesday, during which he said, "If Trump turns off the satellites, California will launch its own damn satellite," according to The Los Angeles Times.

So it probably shouldn't surprise anyone that when Brown said, "We've got the scientists, we've got the lawyers, and we're ready to fight," the audience roared with applause.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#162364: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:44:08 PM

I am forming a new admiration for California in all of this. They are making it clear in no uncertain terms that they intend to stand up to Trump.

Speaking of which, I'm also seeing people say that Russia may be behind things like #Calexit as well. Divide and conquer. Sew dissent.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#162365: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:46:05 PM

[up]Putin has hosted leaders of several Independence/secessionist movements over the years; basic divide and conquer with the bonus of sticking it to those governments.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#162366: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:47:23 PM

It's pretty much an open secret that Russia is pulling the strings behind most of the anti-EU movements and parties.

In other news: Trump Adviser Questions Climate Change, Cites ‘5,500 Year History’ of Earth.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:48:24 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#162368: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:53:46 PM

That is incredibly stupid and short sighted.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162369: Dec 14th 2016 at 4:56:04 PM

That is incredibly stupid and short sighted.

Something I'm sure we'll be saying about a lot of Donald's decisions going forward.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#162370: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:01:17 PM

The governors of the three West Coast states are standing in unison to fight climate change.

Democratic governors Jerry Brown of California, Jay Inslee of Washington and Katherine Brown of Oregon made stark warnings that climate change was already harming the Pacific Ocean along which their states lie.

"Our waters are at mortal risk," said Inslee, speaking via video-conference at a meeting of the International Alliance to Combat Ocean Acidification, in advance of the winter meeting of the Western Governors Association in Coronado near San Diego.

The three governors said they had joined the alliance, a group of U.S. states and countries including Chile and France dedicated to reducing rising acidity in the oceans, a phenomenon tied to climate change that threatens fish, coral reefs and other marine life.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#162371: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:03:18 PM

I'm probably going to regret this but I'm going to wade into the Ayn Rand discussion.

I'll preface this by saying: I did read her as a teenager. I won a runner-up prize from a Fountianhead essay contest run by the Ayn Rand institute. I did not turn into an Objectivist (though it did push me more conservative than I might otherwise have been and my shift from being a devoted Catholic to an atheist can be linked directly to it though it didn't happen right away). I also acknowledge that Rand wasn't very good at practicing what she preached.

First of all, poor people in coal country have probably never heard of Rand or Objectvisim, much less read the books. Their attitudes probably come from a number of sources, including just plain stubborn pride and a degree of the Protestant work ethic.

Second: Most people who claim affinity for Objectivisim are really fucking terrible at being Objectivists.

John Galt's motto, "I will never live my life for the sake of any man, nor allow any man to live for the sake of mine'' cuts both ways. It does not give you license to fuck other people in the pursuit of your own goals. To quote Lincoln out of context, "As I would not be a slave, so would I not be a master." "Greed" in the context of Rand really means "rational self-interest". That differs from the common usage meaning 'enriching yourself at the expense of others'; whether that's a flaw or a deliberate attempt to be intentionally provocative is up for debate. She railed against altruism as a virtue but had nothing against charity if it was given voluntarily. And given the chance I could make a good case for environmentalism using Objectivist principles. (I could not for welfare and public health care but time and life experience has shifted me to a more moderate position on those anyway.)

Another thing: a whole lot of the text of Atlas Shrugged is devoted to "check your assumptions" and "reality is what it is regardless of your fears or wishes". (The latter is where the name Objectivisim comes from.) Both Rand and most Objectivists sucked at this in practice; in Rand's case, it killed her because she wouldn't believe the mounting evidence that smoking caused lung cancer until her doctor confronted her with the chest x-rays and the diagnosis. But as basic instruction on critical thinking, these instructions are not the worst starting points. If you take reason rather than emotion or faith as the basis for decisions, that's not a bad thing.

I have no need or desire to sell Rand to anyone but it does get tiring seeing it ruthlessly demonized, and Julian appears to have taken her as the demon harbinger of all that is wrong with America. My experience with it is that there are many flaws (and further in-depth discussion of them would be better taken to the Philosophy thread) but it galvanized a lot of changes in my way of thinking that I consider more positive than not, even if I latched onto some of them with youthful teenage recklessness. I became more assertive where before I mostly accepted others' rules without question and thought harder about when it was and wasn't right to obey, I pushed harder for self-reliance.I came to question my faith and realize that submitting to God's will over mine was not how I wanted to live.

And the GOP? Most of them are much closer to the looters of Atlas Shrugged than the heroes.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#162372: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:04:47 PM

California Gov. Jerry Brown gave a fiery speech on climate change policy on Wednesday, during which he said, "If Trump turns off the satellites, California will launch its own damn satellite," according to The Los Angeles Times.

#GoldStateBestState.

edited 14th Dec '16 5:05:29 PM by Parable

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#162373: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:12:34 PM

I'm super creeped out by how Ivanka is being put in the first lady position more than Melania. How can she stay married to this man?

Do not obey in advance.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#162374: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:14:37 PM

Something something dolla bills on top of dolla bills.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#162375: Dec 14th 2016 at 5:15:33 PM

Guys, I think all the Hitler comparisons are way off... you need to bone up on African dictators. So far, Trump is being a nauseating Jacob Zuma crossed with pale knock-off Seko or Banda. Well, I hope a pale knock-off of those two. :/

When he starts actual international wars, then you can break out the A-listers like Amin, Bokassa or Al-Bashir. Or, even Mugabe. But, I doubt the staying power, if only due to age. tongue


Total posts: 417,856
Top