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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161951: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:22:52 PM

@Dingo Walley: Well, Common Core has a lot of teachers who dissent with it, including my mother. She's basically a lifelong Democrat and a career teacher. (I don't think she's ever had any other career.) But you're right, this is a really stupid fucking thing for Breitbarters to get mad with a Trump pick over.

@ The rest of the thread: Please remember that this is not a thread for discussing media. Let's not get into another two or three pages of trying to dissect our favorite movies and how they apply to the situation right now. We can always start a thread on that topic if you're interested. It would probably be a lot of fun! But the politics thread is not for that. In fact, it seems to be kind of reductive in this instance.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#161952: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:26:27 PM

So, that tweet about the F-35? That caused Lockheed Martin (the biggest defense corp in America IIRC) a 2.5% stock loss.

Trump's minders need to take away his Twitter rights before he causes an economic crash.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161953: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:28:06 PM

At this point, they may no longer see the need to do so because if this is what happens when he trash talks any huge company, they can make those companies come to heel. Which is a form of corruption I did not expect to see since usually it takes the form of corporations supposed bribing government officials.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161954: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:36:55 PM

The one true President Barack Obama is ready to speak his mind

"I think there's a reason why attitudes about my presidency among whites in Northern states are very different from whites in Southern states," Obama told Fareed Zakaria in an interview for “The Legacy of Barack Obama.” "Are there folks whose primary concern about me has been that I seem foreign, the other? Are those who champion the 'birther' movement feeding off of bias? Absolutely."

This public admission was a first from the president, and Axelrod was even more direct, saying, "It's indisputable that there was a ferocity to the opposition and a lack of respect to him that was a function of race.”

Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#161955: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:52:21 PM

This townhall on MSNBC is an embarrassment.

From Bernie Sanders trying to argue with Trump supporters using terrible regressive ideas, delusional Trump voters trying to justify their vote, and general tension in the room, this is...

Wow.

"He can't do any of that stuff, Congress and the Supreme Court will stop him!"

Makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#161956: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:56:01 PM

[up] re:Congress and the Supreme Court: Checks and balances don't mean crap when one party has all of the power and none of the responsibility.

edited 12th Dec '16 5:57:37 PM by TrashJack

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#161957: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:02:26 PM

[up] That's what I try to tell people. The Republicans as a whole have become a danger to the country through their corruption and extremism, but everyone still wants to pretend that they are somehow functional as a political party acting in good faith.

Trump scares me slightly less than the idea that this pack of jackals will have free reign over the country for the foreseeable future. One party dominating politics so thoroughly should be terrifying even if they hadn't devolved to what the Republicans are now.

edited 12th Dec '16 6:04:22 PM by Geostomp

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161958: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:07:06 PM

NBC Headline: Turkey may use Bi Z Ties To Pressure Trump

Turkey Accuses Trump Business Coharts of aiding in Military Coup

edited 12th Dec '16 6:09:11 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#161959: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:13:55 PM

[up] Well then; Goodbye Turkey, Hello Independent Kurdistan.

[up][up]+[up][up][up] I get the feeling more and more that the next 2-4 years may be the Republican Party's Swan Song.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161960: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:14:37 PM

I want to hope that, at some point, the Democrats are going to take power back in the country, and when they do, the Republican party will rightly be vilified for the damage they've done to the country and the world since. It's absolutely vital that if you guys ever get out of this, NOBODY is allowed to forget what the Republicans became and what they did.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#161961: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:20:58 PM

[up] The operative phrase is "if you guys ever get out of this". If the Electoral College can't boot Trump's ass out, I just don't see how we can ever hope to bring the GOP down, even if (or rather, when) they ruin everything.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161962: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:22:35 PM

A lot of us were pessimistic about our ability to truly rid the country of Trump and his ilk even before we learned that he was probably a Russian agent (or dupe).

The Russians don't let go of power easily.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161963: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:24:39 PM

Well, Trump's going to leave after at most 8 years. I don't think he really plans on sticking around for more than that, especially when he realizes that it's not exactly a fun job.

The question then becomes who's going to succeed him. If he can't match the boorish "charisma" that let Donald rise, then there may be an opening there.

The problem is, voter supression is likely going to get much worse going forward, and even assuming most everyone who voted for Donald that could be persuaded to vote against him intends to do so, it may not be enough. Especially when you consider the fact that whoever succeeds Donald is probably going to be playing to Russian interests, and if they saw that it worked this time and nobody in a position of power did anything, they have no real reason not to interfere even further and push to see how far they can get away with rigging elections.

edited 12th Dec '16 6:49:02 PM by Draghinazzo

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161964: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:24:52 PM

In America, bad guys always win and escape justice, it happened to the South, it happened to Jackson and his land-grabbers, it happened to Reagan and his cronies, to Bush/Cheney and that evil cabal that torched the world For the Evulz.

So I would believe in the end of the Republican Party when I see it...most likely we'll see them realign themselves in a new and more insidious light, create a new generation of smarter conservatives, absorb the Libertarians into their views (they already have Peter Thiel) and do what Marine le Pen did in France, moderate and dial down some of the craziness of Daddy dearest and make her more amenable and tolerable.

Someone like Evan Mcmullin is a Republican 2.0, he comes of as more moderate than Trump but even he wants to reverse Roe V. Wade, favors tax cuts to the rich, cuts in social security and is critical of the N-Deal. The fact that he supports climate change however is a winner and more or less pardons the other crap, even if it is crap.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161965: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:28:47 PM

Oh, you'll get rid of them eventually. The US is too culturally invested in democracy to let it go for any truly significant length of time. And anti-establishment sentiment will remain a pendulum- one that can now only swing away from the GOP. The question is how much damage will be done in the meantime.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#161966: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:35:11 PM

[up] "How much damage"? Far too much. Even now, it may be too late.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161967: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:39:51 PM

I lost that belief in the permanent defeat of conservatism and the right-wing with Trump's victory. If Trump lost then I would have had faith, but now, I'm afraid the Confederacy will be a permanent part of America's future. This was really the moment to finally defeat them...as Trevelyan described the 1848 Revolutions, "a turning point where modern history failed to turn". Electing Hillary would have said, America is committed to the future, to progress and to its institutions.

Now we know that the least white man so long as he is wealthy and lucky, will have the royal road open to him while everybody else is on the back of the bus. I mean that was the reality even after the Civil Rights Era, but people did hope that maybe Obama was a sign that things were change, because he was a true meritocratic success story as would Hillary have been.

On another note, Keith Olbermann is fun as always. Some of the language is really incendiary and shocking, in my view. But I think we need that, it's Catharsis Factor. One thing he is right about, Donald Trump is illegitimate.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161968: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:43:45 PM

Arguably, it was too late as soon as Trump won the nomination, if not earlier. Possibly, it was too late whenever caused this wave of right-wing nonsense that seems to be sweeping the globe happened.

But, well, that's all the more reason to minimize the damage.

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#161969: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:46:50 PM

[up][up] 'The Confederacy' can only be a part of America's future if we all repeat the failures of the Baby Boomers and carry it's torch. I know for a fact that I will refuse to support their policies of racism and bigotry, even for economic gain. According to exit Polls, most people between 18-29 in age are also refusing to as well. And almost every Minority in the United States, all of whom are growing in Total Population, will never accept being 2nd or worse class citizens again.

edited 12th Dec '16 6:47:24 PM by DingoWalley1

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161970: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:47:45 PM

The moment Trump dropped the dog whistles of the Southern Strategy he pretty much guaranteed himself the Nomination, and, in hindsight, the Presidency itself, potentially.

New Survey coming this weekend!
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161971: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:01:23 PM

The thing is that even when the Demographic shift happens, you are still going to have white-friendly and white-first policies, possibly even more so. More importantly the structures could lead to the development of zombie systems, similar to the Zombie Catholicism in France that Emmanuel Todd described.

Even after secularism has triumphed in France, the fact that the Republic had to compromise long and hard with the Catholics which the Emperors and Constitutional Monarchs did, meant that the geographical regions which were once Catholic, and which now absorb outwardly the values of the Republicanism, pervert those ideals towards authoritarian, hierarchical and elitist ends. These regions supported the Vichy and collaborated more fiercely than the Republican parts of France (which fought and defended the Republic in several revolutions and were most active in the Resistance).

You could see within America that white supremacy and confederacy becomes a Zombie system, to some extent it already has, perverting and distorting history so badly that they infest the system even with each success. Zombie systems affect many regions, it's the problem in Russia especially, they killed the Tsar and the Church but made Lenin into a Saint and Stalin into a more powerful and dangerous and terrible Tsar than any of the Ivans and Alexanders. And now Putin is once again the Tsar because the zombie systems of Russia, the authoritarianism and autocracy have persisted and defeated each and every attempt to change it.

In America you have the Zombie Confederacy. They lost but in their defeat and their death, their corpses and their ideas, and propaganda have infected the North much like the zombies in all those bad movies and tv shows. How else do you explain a New Yorker like Trump and the North States of the Rust Belt to buy into this crap?

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#161972: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:02:28 PM

[up][up]No, it actually didn't. Lest we forget for much of the early part of the primary race Trump got no higher then about a third of the vote. The fact that the Republican ticket was so crowded caused the other two-thirds to split the vote and well . . . here we are.

It's possible you might have seen a similar result on the democratic side if their ticket was more crowded.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:02:43 PM by Mio

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#161973: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:05:01 PM

Yes, Trump was elected due to cowardice on the part of Republicans (the party brass and the rank and file) and apathy on the part of everyone else. This election wasn't about ideology, had anyone, on either side, stood up for themselves against this bully, he could have been stopped.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161974: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:07:40 PM

You know, Keith Olbermann's video makes me wonder....

Let's assume that Russia indeed hacked the RNC (which according to what I understand is pretty likely) and what they found there was sufficient to make them comply with this farce (the part I'm not so sure about; maybe they did, but I can buy that the Republicans are amoral and greedy enough that they're going through with this of their own volition). What exactly could it have been?

edited 12th Dec '16 7:10:42 PM by Draghinazzo

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161975: Dec 12th 2016 at 7:09:17 PM

[up][up][up] Trump is loathed by most New Yorkers, as the election result attests. He's an opportunist, and a charlatan before anything else. If you're looking hard enough for patterns in history, you'll undoubtedly find them, but especially in the modern period where we have concrete data, materialistic explanation is far more consistent in agreeing with observational evidence than the vague and in my opinion downright pseudo-scientific idea about the intrinsic nature of a particular culture you are proposing.

Institutional inertia is certainly a major part of why the Full-Circle Revolution is the default outcome of a revolution, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a culture; I'd argue it's far more common for archaic political or economic institutions to be the cause of so called "zombie systems" when it isn't just a coincidence, or the result of underlying materialistic factors, ie geography, causing history to play out in a similar fashion.

edited 12th Dec '16 7:17:59 PM by CaptainCapsase


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