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TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161901: Dec 12th 2016 at 11:48:28 AM

[up][up] Which is why I find calls for the Dems to drop "identity politics" for economic populism to be personally insulting.

edited 12th Dec '16 11:59:19 AM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#161902: Dec 12th 2016 at 11:48:52 AM

Well said, Julian. Very well said.

It's been fun.
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161904: Dec 12th 2016 at 11:58:08 AM

[up][up][up][up] I think that report is alarmist and silly.

If, and it's a distant possibility, the Electors Revolt, there won't be any civil war or anything. Most you can expect a few shootings here and there but that can be handled easily by local/state/city authorities.

Trump's supporters are a tiny minority, and Trump has alienated the military and intelligence networks. He relies on boyars/robber barons and discredited and disgraced showboats like John Bolton and others...

Trump will then do what he always does and try and sue...and that will not go anywhere. It would go to the Supreme Court and they are split 4-4 and one of them like Anthony Kennedy (who broke for Obergefell) would not back him.

edited 12th Dec '16 11:58:30 AM by JulianLapostat

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161905: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:00:50 PM

[up] I think a lot of them would be fine with it as long as HRC didn't win it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161906: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:02:36 PM

Observing Trump supporters ironically made me understand, psychologically, how a relatively moderate Muslim could be radicalized into joining ISIS.

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161907: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:04:43 PM

[up] It made me understand the population of North Korea.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161908: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:06:56 PM

Except moderate Muslims who join ISIS have actual grievances...the evil Imperialists have been looting their land for more than a century, have repeatedly lied and broken their promises, and then end up killing their people indiscriminately all in the name of a crime most of them had nothing to do with it except vaguely resemble the profile of Bin Laden, even if their boss Saddam was on his s—t list and was the only guy maintaining a Balance of Power in that region.

What grievances do Trump voters have aside from feeling oppressed by the very idea of "those people", those women who are proud of their bodies, their careers and freedom, those POC who are being rewarded for merit.

[up] Even North Koreans...during the Korean War, the US Bombed the S—t out of North Korea, unleashing more bombs there than they unleashed in World War II combined, destroying and making most of the urban infrastructure into rubble. Against all odds, they rebuilt all of that, to the best of their abilities while the US backed a corrupt dictatorship in South Korea, that decades later with no thanks from America became a democracy.

It's a crazy country led by bad ideas and obsolete government that's oppressive to its citizens, but most North Koreans have no reason to expect America to do better. They have never given any indication once, in their foreign policy, bipartisan or otherwise, to actually care about Democracy and human rights.

edited 12th Dec '16 12:12:01 PM by JulianLapostat

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161909: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:10:35 PM

[up]It doesn't matter if they have actual ones. The point is they think they do.

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#161910: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:10:53 PM

[up][up] Your Mind Makes It Real. That, and lots of spite.

Regarding the possible Elector Rebellion, I think a moderate Republican is probably the best compromise everybody can get:

  • It's not Trump.
  • It's not Hillary.
  • Republicans still have full power, but the President won't be a nincompoop, hopefully.

Any rabid Trumpets, true and tried Trumpets, can likely be subdued easily as long as they are on their own.

edited 12th Dec '16 12:11:03 PM by FergardStratoavis

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#161911: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:12:25 PM

Yup. I'd say push Mc Mullin but at this point I'd even accept Pence if it means keeping Trump himself away since he's less likely to start a goddamn Cold War II.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161912: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:12:48 PM

To add onto Julian's post, a lot of people don't understand what it means to actually be good.

Being good isn't something that you are, it's something you do. You can talk about how good you are as much as you want, but if you fail at being good when it counts the most then are you really? Being good is often the hardest thing you can be, that's why it's so meaningful when you see someone actually be good when it damn matters.

People can be nice and benign to everyone and cringe at every stupid thing Trump says, but if they still voted for him anyways then what difference does it really make in the end, besides the fact that they may be the first to see how what they did was wrong? The less malicious Trump voters defending their choice to vote for Trump or defending others who vote for Trump are still essentially saying they care more about personal feelings and not being perceived as racist/sexist/reactionary/etc than actually considering the fact that they may have hurt people or been conned.

You can understand why someone would fall for Trump's lies or want to believe them against all evidence and reason, the conditions for some of the people who voted for him have been well documented already and it makes sense that they would vote for him given all those factors.

But they still helped cause this mess, and there's no reason to let them sleep soundly about it.

If someone kills your family in a car accident, does it really make a difference that it wasn't a malicious hit and run? They still killed your family and they're going to have to live with that guilt and responsibility. Maybe other people will be capable of accepting them afterwards but you are under no obligation to.

edited 12th Dec '16 12:15:50 PM by Draghinazzo

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161913: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:20:52 PM

This pivot to blaming China is darkly ironic, since Mitch Mc Connell's wife, the soon to be Transportation Secretary, is Chinese.

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161914: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:22:41 PM

That's not fair...she's Chinese-American, she left there for a reason you know...

America dislikes China because it is Communist, it is rich and productive, and it is a powerful global player that other countries like more than they like America.

Trump hates China because he is Trump.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#161915: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:25:09 PM

Trump certainly doesn't mind when his own companies sell products made in China.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161916: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:25:33 PM

[up][up] I'm Chinese-American (well, Taiwanese-American) too. You really think that people are going to care if we get into a war of sorts with China? Heck, there have already been some ugly comments directed at her for her establishment ties and her heritage on social media even before this "China hacked us, not Russia" crap.

edited 12th Dec '16 12:25:43 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161917: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:26:06 PM

Man's an ingrate, what can I say. He can insult his own employees, abuse people who worked for him, and that's it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161918: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:27:50 PM

Trump hates China because (apparently) they snubbed him when he first approached them with the idea of setting up more businesses with his brand name there.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161919: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:45:44 PM

He's in the wrong profession. You can't put a man that holds petty grudges in charge of the most powerful country in the world.

New Survey coming this weekend!
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161920: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:55:59 PM

America did that a lot of times before. What is Dubya if not a pathetic Manchild who wanted to prove his Daddy wrong by getting "our boy Saddam" and avenging his father's seemingly foolish (but actually brilliant) decision to let Saddam stay in Iraq rather than occupy it.

And Reagan more or less decided to revive 50s Anti-Communism once he came to the Oval Office out of nostalgia for his youth as a strike-breaking anti-communist snitch.

Trump is in that vein...except even more pathetic, because he has grudges against everyone. His own party, the Democrats, the media, SNL, Rosie O'Donnell, Obama. Obama is the guy who doesn't hold grudges...seemingly...because he does have a weird relationship with Putin. I mean publicly Obama slams him and humiliates him, saying he's in charge of a "regional power" (which no offense, is kind-of Trump-esque in terms of attempting to be clever in insulting people) but secretly relies on Putin to get his Iran deal through...that's bizarre.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161921: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:59:51 PM

Because for all his scheming and imperialism Putin is an intelligent and rational actor who is interested in world stability and peace. There's a reason he stopped at Crimea and didn't go on to take Kiev and it's not because he couldn't.

He and Obama are both smart enough to know a fair bit of brinksmanship is for show and when to draw the line and how far they each push things even though our agendas are mutually exclusive.

Obama's smart enough not to take things personally. Trump isn't.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:00:28 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161922: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:06:27 PM

Ok, Julian, Bush was a lot of things (kind of an idiot for one.) But he did not actively want a war. He went into the presidency during a peace time that most expected to continue and no one had any expectation that 9/11 or some other such cruelty was going to happen to anyone. Let's not go so far that we retroactively make people more villainous than they actually were; that's a terrible trap to fall into.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161923: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:15:53 PM

That's fair, Bush didn't campaign on invading Iraq...that's true enough. But fact is, personal reasons and avenging Daddy's failure was one of the reasons for invading Iraq...I mean Iraq had no WMD, they had nothing to do with 9/11. There was no rational reason to invade it. And please don't make me laugh about spreading democracy there...

Bush was going up and down saying it's a "crusade"...yeah, that's going to convince everyone in the world that this isn't a fight against Muslims, use the word that historically originated as "fight against Muslims". Bush was haunted by H. W. Bush's election loss to Bill Clinton, and he wanted to avenge it by getting re-elected and winning the war. He got re-elected and ended up a bigger loser than anyone. I don't agree with the sentiments going on that Trump makes Dubya look good, without Dubya we would not have Trump, not have the Tea Party that came before Trump, and not have ISIS. Dubya was so widely (and rightly) despised that a journalist who threw a shoe at him became an Icon of Rebellion around the world.

Basically the Republican candidates get worse...As Baelor Blacktyde said of the Greyjoys: "Reagan was mad, Dubya was madder, Trump is the maddest of them all."

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#161924: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:28:46 PM

What was so bad about Reagan again?

I don't know enough about him and 538 says he's ranked as our tenth best president.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161925: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:37:41 PM

AIDS crisis and basically starting the current Republican mindset for one.

Oh really when?

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