Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Find the people who are gearing up to fight this and hang out there, for starters. Watch what they're doing and help where you can, whether that's letter writing, donating time/money, signal boosting stuff, etc. Those people for the most part are not in this forum.
I have a couple ideas myself but they're on the back burner for more immediate projects (and it ultimately may be biting off more than I alone can chew and I'd be best served trying to make fiction writing work as a living as the people doing the "serious" work/survival are going to need relief valves). One of them is a legislation tracker, on the theory that with all the bullshit, it's going to be rough sorting out the important and actual dangerous stuff from it.
Well, I was thinking more about those who could be facing prosecution for race/orientation/religion/other stuff if Trump goes full Fascist (with internment camps and everything), to tell them it would be easy to escape to Argentina, not about people who'd be "safe" but just hate Trump.
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVtl;dr: By rejecting a special investigative committee, he places the investigation under the control of Burr, a Trump partisan. Burr will be able to control what information gets out and when.
In other words, don't expect them to start showing any integrity any time soon. Looks like the investigation will be a farce.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:04:35 AM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."Shifting blame to China is a brilliant move, from an amoral power politics perspective; racism will certainly help push things along to some extent, but there's also the small matter of American society being rather jaded about hysterical sounding accusations against Russia; to the uniformed it looks like the democrats are digging up the Cold War boogeyman to save face after a humiliating defeat. To the extent that many left leaning sources are running headlines that impy Russian involvement went beyond spying on the candidates and leaking dirt on them, that's kind of happening.
The partisan squabble between the FBI and CIA certainly isn't helping matters.
![]()
![]()
Not anymore,
according to the NY Times.
Yay?
edited 12th Dec '16 11:07:15 AM by Shippudentimes
![]()
![]()
![]()
That was evident just reading this part of the article linked before:
Mr. Mc Connell said he wanted the Senate Intelligence Committee to lead the efforts. Senator Richard Burr, Republican of North Carolina and a vocal supporter of Mr. Trump’s, is that committee’s chairman. But Mr. Mc Connell welcomed the involvement of Mr. Mc Cain, who is pressing for an investigation of his own.
Yeah, what I quoted comes from that same Times article.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:07:36 AM by IFwanderer
1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KVIf things really do get to the point where Asians are interned in America — again — I'm staying. I'll encourage the rest of my family to GTFO, but I won't leave. America is my country too dammit despite everything.
That said, I do hope that the lingering shame of Japanese internment will keep things from reaching that point. I'm not that brave.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:12:32 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedAt this point, it's clear that no scandal will sink Trump's presidency. He's managed to stumble ass-backwards through so many political disasters that should have sunk anyone in any reasonable country, and had Republicans bending so far over to let him, that we absolutely can't trust in anything sane happening politically for the next four years.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:13:22 AM by RedSavant
It's been fun.My mother is mentally ill and possibly at risk for suicide. If my father, my sibling, and I get interned, even assuming she isn't locked up as well as a "Chinese sympathizer," she may not survive. Which is why I can't take that chance. As much as I hate to say it, there comes a time when I have to look out for me and mine, not make displays of patriotism.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."I'm all for keeping the rest of my family out of America if push comes to shove. I won't ask the rest of them to stay. But I'm not going anywhere.
And again...I am really, really hoping things don't get that bad. I really don't want my resolve to be tested.
edited 12th Dec '16 11:33:22 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedThe only things that have hurt Trump in his hardcore voters' eyes has been when he walked back on the tyranny. It's clear that for all their talk, this was an election of pure spite. This is their victory over a world moving past them and they will not give up on their dream until they simply have no choice.
"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, GodfellasWe can understand them the same way we all understand why Germans enabled the Nazis to commit The Holocaust, or why the South believed in the Lost Cause against all reason and all facts, we can understand them the same way we can understand why so many Frenchmen bought into Marechal Petain.
It's human to resort to denial, cowardice and Victim Blaming rather than accepting responsibility. Everyone says "It's Never My Fault...we were fighting for states' rights, we are standing our ground, Jefferson/Lee/Forrest were men of their time, the Bible tells me so and it's against religious freedom to give LGBT the same rights I have". The American protestant sects, the Baptists have a simple one-stop approach to redemption...just baptize and be born-again and that's it, your earlier sins are forgiven and you don't have to feel guilt anymore.
But understanding someone is not forgiving them, it's not pardoning them or condoning them. It definitely isn't absolving them of their responsibilities or the consequences of their actions. Even MLK's non-violence wasn't about that, nor Mandela's approach. The whole point of Truth and Reconciliation is to get people to accept and face reality, understand who they are and how they look like to other people.
Voting for Trump is an action that has consequences, and we must never pretend or allow anyone to accept that this was anything like an informed choice, that it was grounded in any real grievance.
Global Guerilla
blog is in full siege mode:
On December 19, 2016 the electoral college will vote.
Based on the vote, Trump should receive 306 votes and Clinton will have 232.
However, it is possible for many electors to change their vote. They aren't bound by it.
There's currently a very well funded attempt to influence electors to flip their votes on December 19th to change the outcome of the election.
Despite expectations it has a high chance of success in one of three outcomes:
1. Trump falls short of the electoral count (270) to become President and the election is sent to Congress for a decision.
2. Clinton gets more than 270 electoral votes and becomes the President.
3. A dark horse candidate (Kaisitch, etc.) would get the votes to become President.
In my view: all of these outcomes would end in a disaster.
Why? Most of the country sees this election as already decided.
The voters have spoken. Any change the outcome of the election at this juncture would be widely seen as illegitimate.
What would happen next would be worse.
Trump would claim this is a coup d'etat and gather widespread support. Most of the military and most of the states (which are Republican dominated) would support him.
Until January 20th, chaos would ensue. Violent conflict would be widespread as groups (pro or against Trump) form.
I haven't fully gamed this out but I suspect Trump would be able to gather enough support to become President regardless of the electoral college result (anything less would result in a messy street level civil war). Fear of continued chaos would force this.
The moment he is sworn in, he would invoke a state of emergency and quickly move to arrest anyone connected with the plot to nullify the election and anyone calling for violence.
By the end of March, thousands of people would find themselves in Guantanamo. Labelled as terrorists/traitors they would be denied access to legal representation or any outside contact until the emergency is over.
Trump, strengthened by emergency powers and without an effective opposition (fear of being put on a list), would now be able to rule as a semi-dictator.

"100,000.
That number should be remembered for the rest of human civilization.
We could've avoided this."
What is this 100,000 referring to, at the risk of sounding ignorant?