TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161751: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:37:31 AM

Krieger,

I am once more amazed by your infinite justice and contempt for free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie One of the greatest things in American history right there.

And if your views are too weak to compete in the marketplace of ideas, they deserve to die. smile

Balmung,

Our numbers match ...

Also say what you want about founders (people like Toussaint Louverture or Park Jung-hee), but you have to be ballsy, tough and strong to make a country.

Further, you are completely misunderstanding my point on social mobility. The US has bad social mobility. Good social mobility has many advantages - chief among them how meritorious people gain power over the polity.

Redsavant,

It's easier to get people to care about things that impact them personally. It's why in my life here in Korea I go out of my way to align my interests with the locals rather than other ex-pats. I want to be on the stronger team.

It's not fair, but would you rather get laws passed or make a principaled stand.

edited 12th Dec '16 2:38:47 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#161752: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:41:04 AM

And if your views are too weak to compete in the marketplace of ideas, they deserve to die.
I would love to agree.

But ideas don't die in the marketplace. They are re-branded.

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161753: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:42:46 AM

I think you are probably right, but things generally are getting better if you take the long view.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#161754: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:43:52 AM

Your numbers in the post that led to me writing that were a percentage point lower, which gave me the impression that you had older statistics.

However, the more important point was the omission of college education below the level of a completed four-year degree, which has the effect of puffing up your own eliteness and creating false implications through omission.

edited 12th Dec '16 2:46:44 AM by Balmung

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#161755: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:50:16 AM

When those very views were those held by genocidal sociopaths who led Europe to ruin and prematurely ended millions of lives? Does that not count as a loss to you? Do you understand exactly what it is that you are trying to justify, to normalise?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#161756: Dec 12th 2016 at 2:55:30 AM

Also, those views are one thing when they're fringe nutbars with no real influence, and another entirely when they are held, endorsed, or otherwise encouraged passively or actively by major leading figures. Also, said leading figures (including the president elect, his close family, and his chief strategist) have no more interest in protecting free speech than you accuse Krieger of having.

Their right to say it hasn't changed, but the impact of them saying it has. Before, they were basically just loud assholes that society could largely ignore, now they're in a position to make their hate the new normal. And you can already see their success, both here and in the UK as hate crimes become more common and more severe.

edited 12th Dec '16 2:58:45 AM by Balmung

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161757: Dec 12th 2016 at 3:29:14 AM

Krieger,

If you are less persuasive than people shouting kyke, you need to suck less.

Also, if you think heterodox academy is advocating fascism, you are misinformed about the nature of fascism, misinformed about heterodox academy or a coward.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#161758: Dec 12th 2016 at 3:48:35 AM

People are already more persuasive than that. There is a reason why it's always Campus Republicans complaining about speakers they wish to hire getting de facto banned from campus.

I did not at any point suggest that Heterodox Academy advocates fascism. However, what Heterodox Academy does do is tacitly perpetuate the conservative myth that colleges are where the vulnerable youth are led away from the worship of Reagan and towards the False Idol of the Welfare Queen.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161759: Dec 12th 2016 at 4:03:09 AM

I just hope that when (not if) the economy tanks, millions die due to loss of health care, hate crimes explode, and/or war breaks out in the next four years, that the Democratic Party is absolutely relentless in making sure that people know that it's Trump and the GOP's fault.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161760: Dec 12th 2016 at 4:49:52 AM

I'd already start thinking about ads and social media hashtags if I were them.

#DownWithDonald

#MakeAmericaSaneAgain

#Where'sMyMedicaid

etc.

Of course I'm sure that as his presidency goes on they'll have no shortage of material to work with. I want them to be merciless.

Also I suggest utilizing "Dopey Donald", akin to how Nixon was called "Tricky Dick" by his political opponents.

edited 12th Dec '16 4:53:58 AM by Draghinazzo

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161761: Dec 12th 2016 at 4:56:03 AM

[up] I would also suggest

#DontBlameMeIVotedHillary

They also need to stick to a few big topics. One problem with the election coverage was that the media couldn't keep up with the number of Trump scandals and didn't give any of them the same focus they gave HRC's fucking emails.

edited 12th Dec '16 5:00:02 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#161762: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:12:15 AM

OK, I just finished binging through the past 10 pages. So the US intelligence agencies have reasonable proof that Russia did in fact sabotage the election by hacking into both the Democratic and Republican databases (the latter of which had been vehemently denied by the GOP) and then only leaking documents belonging to the former that would tarnish their image in the eyes of gullible voters.

... Doesn't this provide legal ground for negating the election's results and either holding a new one under much tighter security measures, or simply handing over the presidency to Clinton?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161763: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:24:11 AM

[up] Not unless they can prove that the actual votes were hacked. It is grounds for further investigation to determine whether or not this was the case.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#161764: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:24:56 AM

[up][up] In a sane world, yes, but the Republicans have a base rallied around a cult of personality and the chance to control all government. They will not give that up without a fight.

edited 12th Dec '16 5:25:13 AM by Geostomp

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#161765: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:26:52 AM

[up][up][up]I quite honestly doubt anyone within the Beltway knows exactly what to do.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#161766: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:28:21 AM

@ the China threat: If it starts escalating, I think a lot of countries would align with China. Because China's predictable. They want direct control over Taiwan and Tibet and cultural influence elsewhere. They're not interested in becoming an imperialistic empire. They're not ideal, but they're better than Russia, which flat out annexed part of Ukraine, and what the US is turning into, which is a trigger happy country run by a man with no ability to moderate himself.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161767: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:32:14 AM

[up] I have no love for the CCP, but I think you might be right.

Heck, they're already making headway on that, setting up their own trade agreement and all that now that TPP is finished. They're preparing economic incentives to team up with them.

edited 12th Dec '16 5:32:58 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161768: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:52:36 AM

So are the Republicans actually going to destroy Social Security and Medicare? I doubt that would go over too well with the economic anxiety crowd.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161769: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:57:31 AM

[up] Who is going to stop them? The Democratic Party could try to filibuster that crap, but that's probably not going to be enough.

I will be surprised if the GOP shows enough restraint and basic decency to leave Medicare and Social Security alone.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161770: Dec 12th 2016 at 5:59:13 AM

Well if they do I hope the economic anxiety people take a long hard look at what their party just did.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161771: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:01:15 AM

[up] I dunno. If they were the kind of people willing to make that kind of effort, they wouldn't have placed their faith in Trump.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161772: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:02:22 AM

I'm not sure about that. Social security and medicare are pretty popular even among the Republican base. That's going to be a very hard thing to walk away from.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#161773: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:02:30 AM

[up]I haven't heard much murmuring about Social Security, but Medicare (along with the ACA) is definitely in the cross-hairs.

I get the feeling that many Republicans hope that if they move quick enough they can get this done while still in the "honeymoon" period of the presidency (tenuous that it is for Trump). Perhaps even more cynically they feel that the success of Trumps campaign, one of the most openly racist and bigoted in recent American history, that their base really doesn't care about Economic stuff so they can pretty much act with impunity on that front, so long as they ensure those "uppity" people are kept in their place of course.

TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#161774: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:04:56 AM

Paul Ryan has been planning to privatize Medicare for many years now, and the GOP is planning a "permanent save" for Social Security that involves massive cuts to its benefits. Trump almost certainly doesn't care enough to veto either of these.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary
Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#161775: Dec 12th 2016 at 6:05:34 AM

The Republicans, especially the Randbot Paul Ryan faction, have long dreamed of being able to kill all social safety net programs for their greed and idiotic philosophy. They will overreach on that as soon as possible because of the fact that Trump has their base so enthralled.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas

Total posts: 417,856
Top