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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161676: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:18:26 PM

[up] Like that would stop Trump from doing it. Or for the GOP and his cultists to go right along with it.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161677: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:20:02 PM

It's hardly a Cold War is the thing, it's just antagonizing a weak country for no real reason. China can't compete with any of the great powers. It can't even replicate Soviet technology from the 80s despite having examples and blueprints in hand, let alone match NATO in terms of military might.

edited 11th Dec '16 11:20:14 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#161678: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:25:32 PM

On a completely unrelated note, are there plans on an Obama Presidential Library in the making?

God knows what a Trump library would look like. Probably a life-sized replica of Versailles.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161679: Dec 11th 2016 at 11:26:16 PM

Not sure if this was brought up here already, but apparently the repeal of the ACA is really nothing but a glorified stealthy tax cut for the rich.

The GOP introducing legislation to give tax breaks to the rich at the expense of everyone else? Big surprise, I know.

[up] Trump's library will be full of copies of old Playboys, that one Time Magazine issue naming him Man of the Year, and Mein Kampf.

edited 11th Dec '16 11:27:44 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Proglottid Since: Mar, 2010
#161680: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:12:08 AM

We're literally at that part in the movies where it's all exposition before it cuts to masses of ragged, starving citizens marching before the eyes of soldiers behind razor wire

Or before it cuts to a barren wasteland

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161681: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:19:14 AM

Reading this thread, I get that Trump is entirely EVIL.

Reading the results of the election, I get that Trump won and thus convinced many tens of millions of people that he was their best choice.

These things together makes me think that perhaps there are a few hundred million too many Americans who only talk to people who think like they do.

So, can anybody give me a rational, non-evil reason for supporting Trump? You know, perhaps a hint of a hint of being able to understand one's enemy?

edited 12th Dec '16 12:20:27 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161682: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:24:34 AM

[up] Here's one: for whatever reason, there are a lot of people who think the current gov't is failing them, and not doing enough to help them. So along comes this guy who very loudly claims he will help them. Of course they are going to latch on to him. He's pretending to give a shit about him, and doing so very loudly.

Essentially, he conned them into buying his false hope.

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161683: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:25:19 AM

There closest thing to a non evil answer for supporting him is simply not believing the evil things he said or writing them off as "pandering".

It's worth saying though that Trump lost the popular vote by an absolutely crushing margin.

Oh really when?
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161684: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:28:55 AM

its going to be 3 million votes apparently

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161685: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:32:10 AM

[up] Really proud of my state. smile

edited 12th Dec '16 12:32:34 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#161686: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:41:12 AM

Looking at the actual platform he ran on? No, there was no non-hateful, informed, and rational reason to vote for Donald Trump.

Trump ran on rampant racism, sexism, and other assorted bigotry. He promised a border wall, mass deportations, a ban on Muslims immigrating to the US, a repeal of Roe v Wade and Obgefell v Hodges, promised a trade war with China, alterations to libel/slander laws that would undermine the First Amendment, gut environmental regulations, and chose one of the most blatantly homophobic lawmakers in the country as his running mate. Lots of people voted for him because they liked this message of hate or thought it was all empty rhetoric and voted for him because they thought he didn't mean it.

Okay, so maybe you're a native-born straight white (non-Hispanic) Christian male and don't care about any of that and heard he promised to bring back your town's coal mining or manufacturing jobs. Except if you did your homework, this is not a rational reason to vote for him because, if you did said homework (and if you didn't, you likely think dirty foreigners took your jobs, bringing us back to the xenophobia), you'd know he cannot bring back those jobs because automation took most of those jobs, and natural gas did more to kill coal than all renewables put together.

Or maybe you just like the idea of an "outsider". This is blatantly NOT RATIONAL. It is a position that says experience and training are BAD, which is a mindset most people would probably not use for hiring any other position.

Fortunately, more Americans saw through this haze of hate and utter bullshit than not when it came time to cast their votes. Unfortunately, this doesn't matter because the Electoral College says that these people weren't in the correct states, and thus, their vote doesn't count as much.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161687: Dec 12th 2016 at 12:54:53 AM

To cast a vote for Donald Trump means at BEST you are extremely gullible and stupid.

And at worst are a deplorable human being.

Just because you're having "economic anxiety" doesn't mean you throw millions of minorities under the bus.

New Survey coming this weekend!
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#161688: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:02:06 AM

Honestly, if at the Republican National Convention in 2016, someone went and opened the Lament Configuration, nothing of value would be lost.

I don't really think much of the Rust Belt voters - they lack any sort of foresight, were willing to trust the first obnoxious voice willing to provide them with the jobs that they lost due to a consequence of time passing and the world modernizing.

Do they like being screwed over? I say give them what they like then.

garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161689: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:03:43 AM

Wow, it's incredible how many people are evil, hateful and naive.

Or, you know, it could be one of these things: 1. White working class culture is dying and not everyone sees that as a good thing. 2. Social justice is obnoxious, glorifies weakness, divides everyone into indentity groups and people wanted to fight back against it. 3. We, educated liberals, ARE the elite. If you want evidence, just look at how our guy and our candidate handled the 2008 banking crisis. 4. The US hasn't been more tribal since the 60's at least. This isn't so bad when small minorities are tribal, but 2016 marks the beginning of white people being tribal. 5. The masses are unsatisfied with the government because they got wiped out in the banking crisis, have little social mobility, haven't been able to exact revenge on elites like us. 6. They want to hear about how they are good, rather than listening to our media tell them that they suck every day, year round.

I vote D because I distrust/am afraid of the common man - not for any kind of justice reason.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#161690: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:07:07 AM

[up]Whose guy? The financial crisis was well underway before Obama took office.

I vote D because I distrust/am afraid of the common man - not for any kind of justice reason.

You are either doing way too many lines of Breitbart or being contrarian because you can.

John Bolton is now claiming that Russian interference was an Obama false flag. I hear that Mr. Bolton spent most of his time at the UN complaining about those fighting for human rights and not those suppressing human rights?

Very, very long Twitter thread about how the meme that Obama and Hillary did nothing is untrue. tl;dr: Doing "something" would set Very Bad Precedent.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:08:53 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161691: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:09:51 AM

Obama.

People are furious (understandably) that banking heads never roled. Would cutting off heads have helped anything? No. But to the common man, revenge needs to be taken. This is why I support the elites.

Kreiger,

If you read Brietbart, you would know that they support the common man and don't vote D. So, no.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:10:39 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161692: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:10:03 AM

Garridob, "understanding the enemy" does not necessarily equate to being able to give you a non-reason to support someone. We understand very well that he appealed greatly to certain demographics, that much of these demographics believe that he can change things for the better for them personally, that he was able to act like he cared long enough to convince them he did. That his grade school level of talking appealed to them the same way Bush's did (and frankly while funny Bush's mispronunciations were probably a bit more calculated and generally not aimed at insulting people so Bush comes off way better in comparison.)

We understand that he promised the crowds everything they wanted to hear, with flat out lies. Not even twisting the truth with cherry picked facts, flat out lies. We understand that his celebrity meant name recognition in a way that the others couldn't manage, we understand that his blustery strong man personality is appealing on a personal level to many people.

And those are all reasons that people supported him. But they're not good reasons. He straight up did not disavow the endorsement of David Duke, the head of the KKK. He has Steve Bannon on his staff right now, who was part of the reason Breitbart is a cesspit of misogyny and lies. He's let his children in on international meetings, is refusing to divest himself currently of his holdings, trying to get his daughter and son in law in on his cabinet, and is in general having literally all of the conflicts of interest a president is supposed to avoid.

So yeah. We "understand the enemy". We understand that it's Donald Trump, with his absolute contempt for the political process, ignorance of what is required of a president to do, and his continuing willful ignorance of the same. We understand that we are only seeing the beginning of the damage he can do while in office.

[up]What in fuck are you even on about?

edited 12th Dec '16 1:10:59 AM by AceofSpades

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#161693: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:12:32 AM

[up]Stims, LSD or whatever it is fedora bros take. Seems to be a pattern with his other posts.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#161694: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:13:28 AM

None of those are rational, non-hateful, and well-informed reasons, though. Most of them are various repackagings of "come on Donny-boy, give us some more of that hate speech we're craving" or blatant irrational anti-intellectualism.

And how the fuck are "we" the "elite"? Is the academic somehow more elite than the CEO?

Oh, and people have been dividing into "identity groups" as long as there have been people, and certainly long before social justice was a major movement. And let us not forget Mr. Trump's family ties to and refusal to disavow the endorsement of one of the oldest identity groups in the country - the fucking KKK.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:15:40 AM by Balmung

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#161695: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:15:26 AM

People are furious (understandably) that banking heads never ruled.

The bankers did nothing illegal. That's what a lot of people on the left refuse to either believe or acknowledge.

Their lawyers would've literally embarrassed Justice Department's prosecutors in the court room had they tried to bring up charges.

New Survey coming this weekend!
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161696: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:22:05 AM

Aceof Spade, Excellent start, and I agree with what you said. I'm not kidding about distrusting the common man thing. I have written a lot of articles and even a book about what happens when victims and normal people get power and it's horrible. The French Revolution is actually on the happier side of possible outcomes.

So, where do we go from here? Calling people racists and misogynists isn't going to help. Doubling down on social justice certainly isn't going to help.

I recently reread Teddy Roosevelt's "Strenuous Life" speech and couldn't believe how different, how much better it was, than what we witnessed this year. There was an emphasis on unity as a nation, the idea that Americanness should supersede race or religion or where you go to the bathroom. There was an emphasis on toughness and manliness and confidence - the idea that pain is necessary for the advancement of self or the nation. There were appeals to courage, instead of curling up behind walls to save us from the Mexicans or crawling to group therapy to use playdough as an emotional crutch when your favored politician loses.

I think this might be a good place to start again.

Balmung,

This is how we're the elite. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/

Krieger,

I understand that your justice is infinite and infallible, but not everyone is quite able to see it, hence losing the election.

Tactical Fox,

Completely agree. That said, the common man wanted blood and we didn't give it to him.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:23:13 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#161697: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:23:19 AM

Re: Common man: Look at the popular vote, garridob. Either the common man voted against Donnald Trump, or "elites" outnumber the "common man" (though I'd think this would make them the new "common man by default"), and 48-46 either way. Or, you know, perhaps more reasonably, there are a lot of elites on both sides and elites come in many different flavors.

Donnald Trump is being elected by an elitist organization meant to keep power out of the hands of the common man because the Founders were afraid that the common man would elect a dangerous demagogue if they didn't put a layer of elites in the way.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:24:44 AM by Balmung

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161698: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:25:31 AM

To some people, "educated" means "elite". And "elite" is bad (even though everyone wants to be them). Which I suppose why a blithering fucking moron idiot-savant con-artist is going to be our POTUS.

Even his love of fast food is appreciated by the "common man" who resent liberals who spend some of their extra money buying fresh and healthy food and have enough time and money to go to the local YMCA. Never mind that Trump also blows off the press so he can have dinner at fancy steakhouses.

[up] Thankfully, not all of the "common men" fell for Trump's bullshit. Otherwise I would have absolutely no hope for our country.

TBH, the only rational (if amoral and still rather short-sighted) reason to vote for Trump (and the GOP for that matter) is if you stand to benefit from the sweet sweet 0.1% or even 1% tax cuts. I'm torn since my family qualifies for those tax breaks. It's like how John Oliver felt about David Cameron retiring in the wake of Brexit. He described it as catching an ice cream cone that flew out of the hand of a kid who got hit by a car — he'll eat it, but it feels tainted.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:31:16 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#161699: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:27:48 AM

Balmung,

The conservative elite hates Trump. The liberal elite really hates Trump. The educated elites and the business elites were historically pro-Hillary.

And yes, I know Trump lost the popular vote, but he did win the election. He did this because people were unhappy enough to vote for a KKK connected turd with orange hair. That seems like a problem with us, to me.

M84,

I don't mean elite in the derogatory sense at all. I am unapologetically elitist and I'm not joking about that. Common people do dumb stuff. It is our job to get them in line so they don't elect people like Donald Trump or take part in things like the sans-coullotte, or form a wave of support while Julius Caesar dismantles the republic.

edited 12th Dec '16 1:30:21 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161700: Dec 12th 2016 at 1:30:23 AM

He did it because of an antiquated system. The different in votes is unprecedented.

Oh really when?

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