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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
I might also add that, sometimes, the establishment IS that bad. The problem with Trump is that his base feels his new order will be better than the last, when in reality it will be worse for pretty much everyone. Or alternatively, that he can bring BACK an old order that they consider superior to the current one, ignoring the fact that the old order was not "great" for everyone, and that it's impossible for it to come back.
edited 11th Dec '16 6:31:32 PM by Draghinazzo
Claiming that "holding out for a hero" is a problem is both too hugely vague to be useful in helping us find practical solutions, and also presenting a problem both too big to solve and not isolated to America in particular. While it's a fascinating philosophical argument and good for critiquing American society in general, it's NOT AT ALL USEFUL for solving political problems. Not unless you're planning on using what is literary tradition to craft a persona for a candidate of your choice. It basically seems like a question more fit for the US culture thread, in the end.
It also doesn't help that you seem to be painting the problem as literally apocalyptic and unsolvable.
A very lengthy thread from a strategic analyst that covers a number of the factors that brought us here, but in particular analyzes the idea that Clinton and Obama just gave up without putting up a fight.
It ends on a very hopeful note, which I can only pray isn't misguided.
Results came in from the investigation, Russians have indeed hacked the election.
They based that conclusion, in part, on another finding —which they say was also reached with high confidence - that the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.
In the months before the election, it was largely documents from Democratic Party systems that were leaked to the public. Intelligence agencies have concluded that the Russians gave the Democrats' documents to WikiLeaks.
Republicans have a different explanation for why no documents from their networks were ever released. Over the past several months, officials from the Republican committee have consistently said that their networks were not compromised, asserting that only the accounts of individual Republicans were attacked. On Friday, a senior committee official said he had no comment.
Mr. Trump's transition office issued a statement Friday evening reflecting the deep divisions that emerged between his campaign and the intelligence agencies over Russian meddling in the election. "These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction," the statement said. "The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. I'’s now time to move on and ‘Make America Great Again."
One senior government official, who had been briefed on an F.B.I. investigation into the matter, said that while there were attempts to penetrate the Republican committee's systems, they were not successful.
'''But the intelligence agencies' conclusions that the hacking efforts were successful, which have been presented to President Obama and other senior officials, add a complex wrinkle to the question of what the Kremlin's evolving objectives were in intervening in the American presidential election.
"We now have high confidence that they hacked the D.N.C. and the R.N.C., and conspicuously released no documents" from the Republican organization, one senior administration official said, referring to the Russians.
Right now there is not way to defeat the personal narrative Trump have create around himself, since is fanbase are running in a "it feels good" mode right now, but if you ask me I will said is not going to last because Trump is....well, trump, is incapability to be consistent for more that 15 minutes is going to hurt him, especially since he dosent have anybody to put the blame.
so there you have, a very small confort that Trump illusion is going to break soon, and is all because of him
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"It's sad to say but while this investigation should have obviously happened I don't think its gonna do much except reinforce Democrats' status as the Doomed Moral Victor.
They'll get to say I Told You So as the country rots away in the 4 to 8 years Trump will be in office, and I'm not convinced America will have its learned its lesson by then either, and even if they have, it'll be too late for a long time.
I pray that I'm wrong. Among other and vastly more important things, the temper tantrum Donald would throw if he were to become a one-term president would be delicious schadenfreude.
Trump isn't the only one we have to worry about. Even if the military or whoever would refuse to let him fire one off (which we can by no means count on), how about all the other nuclear powers he's been going around to and poking with frickin' sticks? I mean, that was China literally making a nuclear threat there.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."I am starting to think it is actually possible the EC does go rogue if Trump keeps up fucking up things this bad before he's even elected. The man isn't even in office yet and he stepped dangerously close to a nuclear war.
I want to believe even the most deluded Trump EC voter is starting to see something wrong at work.
edited 11th Dec '16 8:14:02 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Actually, maybe China is sending a very big hint to the Electoral College: "Imagine what would happen if we did this with Trump's finger on the button instead of Obama's? How about doing the world a solid and living up to your damn job as Looney Tunes stopper and ignoring whatever Russia would have you do?"
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Yeah, threatening Americans, or America in general, or anyone America likes, isn't really the best way to send a message to us. When Iran took a bunch of Hostages because they were mad we were housing their ex-Shah, we didn't get the message of "Hey, maybe we should send this guy back," we got the message of "Oh my god! These sickos attacked Americans! Screw them and everything they stand for!"
Threatening anyone with Nukes certainly won't make Americans think "You know, Donald Trump isn't the President we should vote for", I can guarantee you that.
edited 11th Dec '16 8:19:43 PM by DingoWalley1
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Won't work. People will just think "shit, we need a big tough strongman like Trump in power quick to protect us from those scary Asians!"
The EC isn't going to revolt. It has just as many cretinous Trumplings in it as any other group, and Trumplings have pretty much proven themselves to be 100% logic-proof at this point. Even the ones who don't actively support him are still more likely to vote their state's supposed will than they are to go rogue, out of some misguided sense of duty. Never mind the fact that stopping Trump literally is their duty at this point, and casting a vote for him should be practically tantamount to treason.
edited 11th Dec '16 8:19:50 PM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."I feel like China is doing this because Trump is too stupid to understand a more subtler kind of threat. It's extremely unlikely they plan to do anything. They're not fools, it's how they've been able to hold onto power for this long. But still, fuck those guys. Even the idea of using nukes as a threat over acknowledging Taiwan's legitimacy as an independent nation is disgusting.

edited 11th Dec '16 6:28:59 PM by CaptainCapsase