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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161551: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:11:11 PM

Учитывая обстоятельства, я думаю, я бы лучше освежить мой русский. Google Перевести это благословение от Господа.

Oh, sorry, I think my Russian's still a bit rusty. Let me translate that for you:

'Considering the cirumstances, I guess I'd better brush up on my Russian. Google Translate is a blessing from the Lord.'tongue

Seriously though, if we've actually become an anime, then chances are we're eventually going to reach the middle of said anime and wind up being 'conquered' by the equivalent of the Galactic Empire, which may very well turn out to be Russia. Again, I'm not saying it'll happen any day soon, but given the road we seem to be set on, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened at some point. It's either them or China, so pick your poison.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161552: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:11:24 PM

Presumably the business is going to his two older sons and not Ivanka and her husband. Possibly because he's trying to get them involved in his cabinet. Really though, there's nothing saying he can't just, say, have them over for dinner every night and have a conversation. (And quite frankly I think Ivanka's a lot smarter than Trump in a whole lot of ways. Still fucking illegal as fuck though.)

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161553: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:13:23 PM

Seriously though, if we've actually become an anime, then chances are we're eventually going to reach the middle of said anime and wind up being 'conquered' by the equivalent of the Galactic Empire, which may very well turn out to be Russia.

I think that's what happened last month, actually. We're ahead of schedule.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161554: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:16:26 PM

[up]x4 It doesn't matter whether or not they're 'included'; even if they aren't officially, (though it certainly looks like they will be,) Trump's probably still going to be talking to them and having them unofficially handle things anyway. We don't really have a chance of moving towards Dr.Strangluv because, official or not, they're going to be a part of things either way. Though I suppose this means it's the perfect time to pop in Blade Runner again...

[up]Ah. Well, at least this means the constitutional reforms might happen that much sooner, though given the Empirical takeover didn't happen when it was supposed to anyway, only God knows when those will ever happen. Maybe in 50 years, give or take?tongue

edited 11th Dec '16 3:44:46 PM by kkhohoho

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#161555: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:18:42 PM

The man is just insufferable. Like when he got Time's Person of the Year, he whined about how it used to be "man of the year" and criticized Time for Political Correctness...

...while completely overlooking that "Person of the Year" is awarded for "most influential, for better or worse" not "most bigly goodest." (I believe Saddam Hussein got it one year...)

edited 11th Dec '16 3:59:15 PM by pwiegle

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161556: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:19:52 PM

[up] So did Adolf Hitler, in 1938. Joseph Stalin got it twice.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#161557: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:22:05 PM

"This really is how it ends, isn't it?"

The thing about optimists is they say "well it always works out, donnit?"

problem is the only folk who can say that are those that didn't lose. And this election proves that the west can lose. hard. We don't know that this will work out. A war with Iran has the potential to rankle the russians up and with nuts on both sides of the conflict nuclear Armageddon is a possibility. A complete economic collapse of America would trigger an international crisis. A president that is complete anathema to half the country in terms of both economic and social policy could trigger secession of the west. A successful move by the EC to take the election could provoke a civil war. And let's not forget that a reversal on climate change policy brings The End of Man just another step closer to fruition.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#161558: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:22:30 PM

If we're talking anime comparisons, it's just as likely we're in the middle of the Distant Prologue. The one you get when the hero's father figure is talking about how "The Dark Times" came to be and why his son, The Chosen One, must bring an end to it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161559: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:27:19 PM

Re: Trump's Time magazine cover. If you really look at the Trump Time magazine cover...it's actually not flattering in the slightest.

The giant red "M" gives him devil horns that are way too precisely placed to be accidental.

The chair he's sitting in has literal laurel leafs patterned on the back.

Speaking of the chair, it looks extremely similar to the one Hitler was pictured sitting in when he was Person of the Year.

It also looks expensive and fancy at first, until you see the stains, blemishes, and tears.

There's also the muted colors and grainy camera filter that lend a decidedly unflattering bent to the entire scene, reminiscent of decades-old picture-taking technology, hinting at regression rather than progress.

Plus the easy-to-miss-yet-still-ominous shadow Trump casts across the backdrop.

Now, some of that may be me reading too much into it. Which is why I still prefer Teen Vogue's approach. Time goes "ooh, we're being subtly subversive in our visual depiction of Trump!" Teen Vogue goes "HE'S A GODDAMN FASCIST."

edited 11th Dec '16 3:27:35 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161560: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:30:03 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, we've already listed off all the reasons why most of those probably ain't gonna happen, so I'm not going to list them again, but again people, get a hold of yourselves! Yes, the next 4+ years are going to suck, but it's not the end of the world, and we shouldn't have to keep reminding people that it isn't.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161561: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:30:13 PM

[up][up] I feel like the time cover may actually play reasonably well into Trump's overall public image strategy, at least as far as Bannon goes, he all but invoked Evil Is Cool in an interview.

edited 11th Dec '16 3:30:27 PM by CaptainCapsase

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161562: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:32:16 PM

Problem is The Chosen One narrative is one of the reasons we got into this mess to start with. For a lot of people in America, Donald Trump is The Hero of a Epic Fantasy who will restore order and "Make America Great Again". He's defending the hobbitses from the Scouring of the Shire, i.e. industrialization and rural decline, instituted by Saruman (Bill Clinton) and Sauron (Obama) and protecting the"hobbitses and the world of men from the Orcs and the "Men of the East".

From a certain view, Trump's arrival is "The Return of the King". His return will bring back coal jobs and hold back the forces of modernization and change.

Remember, most fantasy narratives are reactionary and conservative (even if the authors are themselves not), most stories about "heroes" end up serving the interests of the conservative order. Most of the heroes who are Campbellian chosen ones tend to be like Trump: pre-annointed lazy kids who luck out their victories with minimal training, little knowledge and end up at the centre not through competence and merit but by appealing to emotions over reason.

edited 11th Dec '16 3:34:17 PM by JulianLapostat

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161563: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:33:32 PM

[up] That sort of thinking is ubiquitous throughout human history. The idea of the great man is far more entertaining for most than the rather unglamorous fine details of economics, political institutions and demographics that constrain real history. I don't think that's inherently reactionary, even if it easily can be. If anything it's about individualism; the idea that you can only ever be a small cog in a big machine no matter who you are and how you spend your life isn't very appealing on an emotional level.

edited 11th Dec '16 3:37:44 PM by CaptainCapsase

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161564: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:40:48 PM

Mostly because those fine details would probably involve a serious study in economics, geopolitics, history, etc. And well, most people don't really care that much about those things. They're generally more concerned with their personal lives than the intricacies of how their country works.

Not to mention that, broadly speaking, people tend to have trouble navigating complex problems without easy answers, as are most things when you really sit down and study them. They want easy solutions and easy targets upon which to project their fear. Politicians have exploited that tendency for as long as that profession has been around.

Both of these facts have played a big role in Trump's rise.

edited 11th Dec '16 3:42:38 PM by Draghinazzo

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161565: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:43:06 PM

Most of human history was spent in kingdoms and empires, the likes of William Shakespeare didn't even have a choice in subject matter since he worked in a totalitarian state where anyone who stepped out of line got whacked (cf, Christopher Marlowe).

It's more than a little problematic for that kind of thinking to steep into Democratic societies, because it can amount to, to borrow Emmanuel Todd's phrase, "Zombie" Monarchy. And Trump's entire campaign is filled with neo-royalism...his own palace, his fascination with gold-plated everything, his whole reactionary appeal to rural whites which is disturbingly similar to the French Kingdom and French Empire's popularity among rural elites (like the Vendee....aka the French Confederacy) over the Paris Basin (which leant towards republicanism and egalitarianism) and needless to say his whole rhetoric, via social media and others, where he more or less acts like he wants to rule by decree.

He has an aggressive contempt for institutions in the manner of Russian autocracy (as J. Arch Getty noted in Practicing Stalinism). And more or less, he wants to make royal progresses across America and charge the bill to the state or his hosts and handlers...in the tradition of that great miser Elizabeth I.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#161566: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:50:37 PM

Re: Trump's Time magazine cover. If you really look at the Trump Time magazine cover...it's actually not flattering in the slightest.

Yeah... That's what thearticle I linked last page is about. It analyses all those details in the portrait that you're talking about.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161567: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:53:40 PM

The Time photograph does convey Trump's neo-monarchical pretentions well. It reminds me of this portrait of the Pope except not as genuinely elegant and fierce.

That chair is a Louis XV chair, and of course the headline "Divided States of America" (which Trump got irritated at)...the fact that Trump doesn't like it proves that it did the job.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#161568: Dec 11th 2016 at 3:54:59 PM

His desperation to get his children involved has to do with his issues with loyalty, also why he's had such a hard time staffing some positions.

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161569: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:02:36 PM

Monarchs are famously paranoid and they use their families as a system and means of control. Modern society began when people stopped using family as a means of association and created other means of forming identity...nationality/ideology/aesthetic interests.

The Democrat Party has had dynasties like the Kennedys and I guess the Clintons, but ultimately that did not guarantee Hillary the Primary vote when she went against Obama, who won over the Party through his merit and diligence.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#161570: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:05:11 PM

@The conversation about cultural narratives: while it has the obvious problem of being about noble characters, may I suggest The Oresteia as an example of a more democratic narrative? it can work, seeing as the conflict is solved through a trial, attempting to settle a Cycle of Revenge by the laws of the city. And (ironically for people who have some knowledge on Plato's views of democracy) some of the Socratic Dialogues could be also helpful to push the narrative. Also, within Latin American literature there's also many works that deal with the rural-urban divide from a urban=good rural=bad perspective.

edited 11th Dec '16 4:05:29 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161571: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:14:55 PM

The thing is that seeing this present situation in a certain heroic narrative, like saying Obama is a Big Good and this is the opening act of a Prologue where a hero will come in the future to set things right, it's just that this is the kind of thinking that led people to vote for Trump.

I am just pointing that out, and not criticizing anyone or anything. It's just that the desire for a hero or savior-figure is something across political lines. And to me Holding Out for a Hero is something that should have died in 1945 when the hero nations of the world (USA, UK, USSR) were far too late to save the great quantity of the people killed in the camps.

Our desire and need for heroes was one of the factors which led to the rise of Trump. I really believe that. Our society has devalued, commodified, abused and dishonored the concept of heroism, the messy reality and tragedy that some authentically heroic figures possessed. And when you hollow that out, and lower that threshold, anyone can step in and pass himself of as The Chosen One. Especially in a world where mass-media and entertainment are merging together.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#161572: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:16:52 PM

So Trump is a Real Life Fake Ultimate Hero?

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#161573: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:17:06 PM

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#161574: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:19:14 PM

Please stop implying that people don't learn about economics etc. because they don't care.

It's a lot of effort. They aren't educated in the first place. Not by school, not by the media.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161575: Dec 11th 2016 at 4:20:28 PM

In some senses, all heroes are Fake Ultimate Hero is what I am getting at. In America, the idea of heroes is pervasive, right from the Deification to the Founders, to Kennedy and Reagan.


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