Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Trump is okay with the free market for himself. Hence his international hotel deals like Trump Tower Mumbai or that a Trump building in Indonesia didn't get permits but now has it because Rodrigo Duterte made Trump's local point-man ambassador.
There's no weight in any of Trump's speeches, no thought or consistency. He's against the free market because it means America has to share with Mexicans...aka untermenschen, and that one of the side-effects is immigration. NAFTA was unpopular, and so Trump has come out against that but he just said that on his campaigns, he didn't mean it.
Trump's a crony robber-baron capitalist, he wants everything for free and give nothing back. That makes him relatable to the white working class, because "everything for free and give nothing back" is their way too.
Tillerson looks like a fight Mc Cain and Graham are looking likely to pick. Those two get extremely wonky over Russia. Not going to challenge the election but those two have more or less signaled they're not giving a free ride to who they see as a Russian Patsy
Meanwhile, Trump is attacking the CIA for suggesting the Russians interfered with the election.
. This plus the Flynn nomination (who a lot of the Intel community loathe), strikes me as picking fights with people you don't want to pick fights with.
Not having the proverbial secret police on your side is like a Darwin Award level of poor decision making.
edited 10th Dec '16 2:40:50 PM by PotatoesRock
![]()
I've long lost faith in the Republican Party doing the right thing. But yeah, pissing off the CIA is probably a bad idea, although he does have the FBI on his side.
One detail that's kind of funny. So apparently Russia hacked both the RNC and DNC. I'm not saying that Russia has something on Trump and is blackmailing him, but...
Are we potentially seeing the inverse of CIA Evil, FBI Good take place in real life?
"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -BurNot the Republican Party, just 2 or 3 wonks who specifically get kooky when Russia comes up.
Even the FBI is questionable. Comey and the Pro-Trump faction of it was definitely batting for him, but still a divided house to a degree.
Attacking CIA for doing their job and briefing Senate and WH on this, and WH now doing an investigation on the matter. On top of trying to install a crackpot so badly liked in Intel Comm that he was labelled spouting "Flynn Facts" for his crackpot information before he got bounced, as their boss? Bad idea. I don't see any way this ends but Bad.
Not saying CIA or NSA or NIC are good/bad. Just picking a fight with these guys seems a really really bad idea for a non shitstorm future.
There are smart ways and dumb ways to trying to thaw Russian relations. Trump is choosing the Tropic Thunder Full Retard dumb way of doing this.
edited 10th Dec '16 2:57:10 PM by PotatoesRock
Really, the CIA and NSA have never pretended to be anything but what they are: Necessary Evil, Necessarily Evil, and the Token Evil Teammate at the best of the times. That said, they are always 'security of the Country' first, even and especially when that involves bribery, blackmail, assassination and throwing other countries into chaos. Of the 17 Intelligence Agencies in the US, the CIA and NSA are not just the largest and best funded; they are also possessed of the most power and least oversight by wide margins.
edited 10th Dec '16 3:00:37 PM by ViperMagnum357
I thought their way was "work until my back breaks, then blame myself for not standing straighter, thank the boss for working me so hard before I die of something my insurance won't cover, and in the meantime refuse all entitlements and welfare as a matter of principle"
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Mark Felt screwed over Nixon by speaking to Woodward and Bernstein...Maybe someone in the government can leak Trump's tax records.
It would be hard for CIA to do that however, unless they can hack the IRS or some other agency which I imagine would be considered a major "dick move". Spying on citizens is dodgy enough, spying on other government agencies is a huge breach.
These days Data Leakers tend to target the Democrat party disproportionately. Like Edward Snowjob famously revealed the shocking truth, "Governments spy on other governments...Governments spy"..."Le gasp"...that's their job you imbecile. And Snowjob was an Iraq War booster, a Rand Paul voter, and an Ayn Randian and transparently a Putin puppet. They are supposed to spy, learn in advance and use information so as to prevent wars and have a better understanding of rival nations.
That's what espionage is there for. The iron rule is not to get caught. Those NSA leaks started the whole trend towards attacking the government's credibility and attacking Obama.
None of these leaks ever unearths any real information of any note. Like those Sony Hacks reveals that big corporations are packed with imbeciles and short-sighted executives worried about their jobs...we knew that all this time.
You want to know controversial leaks...the Pentagon Papers, Deep Throat, or with those with longer memories, when the Bolsheviks leaked all the Tsarist Russian documents and made the Sykes-Picot treaty a public fact and a disgrace to England and France...next to that Assange and Snowjob are nothing.
![]()
It would pretty much have to prove legal wrongdoing sufficient to push for impeachment.
Uh, Snowden was talking up Sanders and BLM on his Twitter during the election and he was criticizing Putin and Wikileaks.
Edit to add: and he's being openly critical of Trump and his cabinet picks (but also remains critical of the Obama administration's survalence policies).
edited 10th Dec '16 3:57:57 PM by Elle
More general point is if departments think they're going to get dicked by Trump, not a great sign. Presidents essentially don't pick fights with the Alphabets. Reform might be pushed for but you don't flat out go like Trump did and go "Hurr durr, CIA is a bunch of fucking dipshits who can't do their job, durr."
Snowden just put himself in a Morton's Fork. Leave the poor sucker alone.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Trump has tapped a fast food CEO, with a long history of opposing raises in the minimum wage, as Secretary of Labor.
How is that swamp looking?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-labour-puzder-1.3888836?cmp=rss
edited 10th Dec '16 3:56:05 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

@Julian: To quickly digress, they don't deny it, no.
But, according to a new course curriculum, it will be omitted from the general set of biology requirements. It's already, as I've been told, treated neglectfully in schools, so this sets a precedent to try and ignore it whole in the future, likely substituting it with creationism bullshit instead.
Though calling Poland a "Catholic" country would be a gross misunderstanding; "Quasi-Catholic" is more appropriate.
edited 10th Dec '16 1:14:00 PM by FergardStratoavis