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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161301: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:02:14 PM

If the Russia connection really is true I think a fair amount of them will push for him to resign. I doubt they want to be associated with that.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#161302: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:04:12 PM

If so, any chance of Pence getting tarred with that association?

iflewaway someone from somewhere Since: Dec, 2016
someone
#161303: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:04:40 PM

[up][up] You severely underestimate these people. If they had any decency they would have abandoned him long before now.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:05:33 PM by iflewaway

something
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#161304: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:05:02 PM

EDIT: n/m

edited 9th Dec '16 6:05:13 PM by sgamer82

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161305: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:18:14 PM

This article on Trump's issues with Boeing goes into describing Air Force One.

Gotta say, it makes it sound like the closest thing to a Batmobile or a Batplane, in how totally tricked out and filled with gadgets it is.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#161306: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:19:01 PM

n/m

edited 9th Dec '16 6:20:20 PM by Heatth

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161307: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:20:35 PM

I think that sort of situation is unprecedented. If it's as simple as hackers changing a bunch of Hillary votes to Trump then in theory I think those votes should go to her.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:28:08 PM by Kostya

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#161308: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:30:12 PM

I do wonder if the CIA report could cause some more electors to go faithless.

I still think the possibility of an EC revolt on a level that matters (where Trump fails to gain 270 electoral votes) is extremely unlikely. But I'm reaching the point where I think the benefits outweigh the risks.

Whoever ends up President (be it Hillary or a Republican other than Trump) is going to immediately turn around and push to abolish the very system that put them into office in order to have any chance of having any popular support. And I really dislike the Electoral college.

Plus it means we don't have a staggeringly incompetent President who has a non-zero chance of accidentally starting a nuclear war....with France.

Now of course an EC revolt does present the risk of an actual revolt from the more hardcore Trump supporters. Such a revolt would be unlikely to succeed, but it could get rather bloody for awhile. But at this stage I'm starting to feel like that might be an acceptable tradeoff, and the fact I find it acceptable disturbs me on a fundamental level.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#161309: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:30:24 PM

[up][up]But what if it is not know how many votes were changed? What then?

And, really, it Trump willingly colluded with Russia to win how can he be allowed to be president? Even if no vote was actually hacked, if a candidate allied to a foreign state to deliberately fool and manipulate the people of their own country, it seems bizarre to proceed as if nothing happened.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:30:38 PM by Heatth

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161310: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:32:22 PM

Gotta say, it makes it sound like the closest thing to a Batmobile or a Batplane, in how totally tricked out and filled with gadgets it is.

That's a humorous observation, given the impression I have that many people thought Trump was some sort of Bruce Wayne figure who could strongarm the political establishment into submission.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161311: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:34:06 PM

[up][up]I don't think the constitution specifies what happens in that situation. Ideally I think Obama should declare the 2016 election illegitimate and remain as interim President until we can hold another one.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:34:25 PM by Kostya

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161312: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:36:19 PM

I feel like even if there was Russian interference, Trump probably wasn't directly involved. After all, it's not like they needed his permission. So the only thing it actually says about Trump himself is that Putin wants him to be president, which shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161313: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:37:57 PM

He would still be illegitimate though. If the election results were tampered with then I don't think we can say that he fairly won the election.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#161314: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:41:33 PM

[up][up][up]Is there a more politically safe measure? Like, it is easy to look dictatorial if you do something to extend your term? Could someone else be interim president instead?

[up][up]Yeah, in that case it is a bit more blurry.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#161315: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:43:34 PM

I guess somebody else could be interim president but who would it be? Biden is the VP already so there's no reason for him to come first and Obama has no reason to give it to the Speaker of the House.

edit: I guess he could declare himself interim President and immediately step down to make it clear he isn't doing this to remain in power.

edited 9th Dec '16 6:44:48 PM by Kostya

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#161316: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:07:25 PM

Kostya, the end results were likely not mess with by the Russians. The original article was about how Russia did things like hacking the DNC's database and so on. Which was a much simpler solution than attempting to fuck with the vote machines themselves. The end results cannot be declared illegitimate the way you seem to think they can be. Frankly I'm far more pissed by the fact that the Republicans did not want to go public about this bullshit.

Now, there's some fuckery apparently going on in Michigan regarding the recount, but that was action at a local level and likely didn't have much to do with the Russians.

[up]First of all, there's no actual mechanism for the President to even do that, and would rightfully piss off a vast amount of people. Second, you don't declare yourself "interim president" and then immediately step down. You are clearly not thinking this through very well.

edited 9th Dec '16 7:08:30 PM by AceofSpades

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#161317: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:12:10 PM

IF concrete evidence of Russian vote tampering (not just popular opinion manipulation) turned up and IF there's evidence that Trump was complicit and it comes after the EC confirms the results as they stand, I think the only body that would have the authority to overrule the election results might (and i'm not sure) be the Supreme Court. They were the deciding factor in Bush v. Gore at least so that is a sort of precident. There would be nothing about it that wouldn't be messy and it would be a massive constitutional crisis. The most logical temporary solution probably involves invoking the presidential succession clauses and making Paul Ryan president pro temproire until the mess got sorted out.

edited 9th Dec '16 7:15:38 PM by Elle

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#161318: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:13:11 PM

Really, if you want to blame any single individual for this result (instead of Americans collectively, Republicans for being unprincipled, Democrats for being apathetic, etc), FBI Director Comey is your man. His blatant violation of the Hatch Act probably made all the difference, Clinton probably would have won narrowly had he not brought up the fact that the investigation might (but not really) be starting again.

edited 9th Dec '16 8:42:19 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JBC31187 Since: Jan, 2015
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#161320: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:31:31 PM

[up]He's also a Hatch Act-breaking pillock. What's your point? <confused>

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#161321: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:33:05 PM

They were correcting the mistake in the post above saying CIA Director Comey.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#161322: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:36:05 PM

...I'll just potter to bed now, don't mind me. [lol]

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161323: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:46:08 PM

@Kostya: Please read back what you just suggested. You're so afraid of Trump that you'd accept a dictatorship from your own side of the aisle?

I'd rather work to stop Trump in the courts, in congress, and when necessary in the the streets than guarantee a constitutional crisis by seizing power like that, even temporarily.

edited 9th Dec '16 7:47:43 PM by CaptainCapsase

BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#161324: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:53:05 PM

[up] What do you mean, "in the streets"? I'm a bit puzzled as to why, after Occupy Wall Street, the DAPL, the Iraq war protests, the NAFTA demonstrations, and the $15 minimum wage protests, so many people still think protests accomplish anything in America. There's no threat of force behind them.

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#161325: Dec 9th 2016 at 7:53:33 PM

[up] DAPL is currently shut down because of the protests; civil disobedience can and does work if the people doing it are sufficiently determined.

edited 9th Dec '16 7:54:14 PM by CaptainCapsase


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