TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#161051: Dec 8th 2016 at 1:10:05 PM

[up][up][up][up] Eh, burning the plantations and scorched earth as a whole means that you're going to be the one who has to pay and oversee the reconstruction (heh) of otherwise perfectly viable economic facilities.

We can start first by disarming those Right-Wing Militia Fanatic types if Pizzagate is anything to go by. If the Chinese Cultural Revolution is anything to go by, even the most totalitarian government can't afford to turn a blind eye to an entire demographic of wantonly destructive useful idiots who act on their own accord for long. If Comey's FBI won't get their act up to handle it, it'll boil over to the point where the National Guard or military will have to take up the reins for them.

edited 8th Dec '16 1:10:26 PM by FluffyMcChicken

JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161052: Dec 8th 2016 at 1:25:11 PM

The practical way to fight is culture. We need to empower education and get control of the textbooks and give more funds to humanities and historical research.

We need to fund science development and insist on evolution/climate change and canonize Darwin/Einstein for the secular saints that they are. Also need to invest heavily in mental health because Reagan's deinstitutionalization was a major setback and problem in the 80s.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#161053: Dec 8th 2016 at 1:36:37 PM

Basically. The right will accuse it of being brainwashing (true that it can be abused as such, but the irony is in this situation it's the rightwingers who're most guilty of that in the US) but the key to changing people is through education. And if you can make strides with that then we can make headways in reducing racism and other forms of bigoted attitudes, as people in this thread have repeatedly stressed that a lot of the attitudes that led us to this situation are as much the product of ignorance and stupidity as actual malice.

There's a reason why one of the first things despotic governments usually do is to purge the education system along with dissident intellectuals and replace it with patsies who teach a "politically correct" curriculum (in the original sense of "teaching party dogma"), purposefully crippling it and stifling the development of independent thinking skills in the young populace in order to create a generation of mindlessly obedient citizens. Communist China is a perfect example of that. Fluffy Mc Chicken is spot-on with his comparisons to the Red Guards.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:08:06 PM by AlleyOop

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161054: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:12:28 PM

I hear people accuse trump of being hitler so much that i'm surprised nobody called him a holocaust denier yet.

What? What is this?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161055: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:14:23 PM

Has he made any statements about the Holocaust? I feel like if he had people would have jumped on that in an instant.

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161056: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:15:31 PM

Not yet, but i can only imagine the memes that would spread about it.

What? What is this?
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161057: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:15:56 PM

[up][up][up]I wouldn't say Trump is Hitler; not yet anyway. He says a number of things that make people think he's Hitler, but then he also says a number of things that suggest anyone but Hitler. He tells the people what they want to hear, so while the next four years will suck, there's no guarantee as to just what kind of suckitude we're going to get. All because of Donald Flip-Flopping Trump.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:16:47 PM by kkhohoho

animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161058: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:17:07 PM

Speaking of which, the time magazine made trump person of the year and of course everyone pointed out how hitler made it in the person of the year.

What? What is this?
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161059: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:18:59 PM

And i want to see trump actually do what he promised. I don't care about what he says since actions speaks louder then words and him saying something is the least of my concern.

What? What is this?
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#161060: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:19:00 PM

[up]This is how you get the Carrier "deal." Something gets done. And then, end of story. No discussion, no analysis, no consequences.

[up][up][up]That's the almost the worst part about it.

He could straight up say, "We will not put people in camps," and I would not believe him. Because as much I would like to, I certainly have no reason to.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:24:12 PM by Eschaton

ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#161061: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:21:19 PM

[up]Not to worry-one of Trump's advisors flat out called the US government's Japanese Internment camps a "model"; that will come up sooner or later.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161062: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:28:16 PM

[up]Maybe. But just because it comes up doesn't mean they'll actually go through with it in the end. They might just say later down the line that they are 'planning' on going through with it, only for it to turn out that they dropped it altogether and only brought it up again because they wanted to make people think they were actually coming through on their promises. Honestly, with Trump, that sort of stunt would make perfect fucking sense.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161063: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:29:51 PM

[up][up][up][up]Well, it depends on what they're saying. When you say...rather unflattering things about certain ethnic groups and people are indifferent to or even agree with that it kind of presents a problem.

And well, Trump is a flip-flopper of the highest order. He went so far as to say he never promised Carrier anything, even AFTER doing something for their situation however sloppy it was. So I wouldn't count on him to accomplish much. Don't expect anything from him but a stream of mediocrity, incompetence and embezzlement.

EDIT: Also Bluefish is correct that a lot of his promises are, well, awful for everyone.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:32:09 PM by Draghinazzo

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161064: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:30:36 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Trump doing what he promised would be a complete nightmare for both the American people and the rest of the world - including my family. War, climate disaster, concentration camps and the rolling back of freedom of speech-slash-expression are among the inevitable consequences of Trump keeping his promises.

As for his words being meaningless - how can you say that, in this society and climate? Words carry incredible power even under normal circumstances, let alone when they're coming from the future leader of the free world. Trump has yet to stop acting like a spiteful, petulant child, and it's not funny anymore, nor can we keep giving him free passes now that he's president-elect.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:31:02 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
JulianLapostat Since: Feb, 2014
#161065: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:30:37 PM

The problem with calling Trump Hitler is that one can mistake him for not being a homegrown fascist or forget how much fascists were inspired by Americans.

The Nuremberg laws were modelled on American miscegenatist laws. Lebensraum and Nazi ambitions to expand into Eastern Europe was inspired by Jacksonian Democracy, the Trail of Tears and so on. Hitler's favorite movies was Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs and the Broadway Melody of 1929 (and also King Kong).

Liberals have spilled ink comparing Nazism with Communism (which most scholars today agree is bunk) while ignoring the major elephant in the room. Nazism is German Americanism, it was all about turning that Germanic Depressive frown upside down with American style propaganda and racism, and persecute the minority by getting the businessmen on board and making propaganda victories.

I mean Trump's whole infrastructure scheme could be Hitler's Autobahn, which was started before Hitler, by a mayor and civil engineer in Cologne by the name of Konrad Adenauer, which the Nazis incompetently built and promoted as a symbol, and which didn't help them much since the US Army used it to ride into Germany. Although Eisenhower was apparently inspired by it for his own interstate highway project when he came back to USA and that came at the expense of public transport and today, car cities are on the way out and everyone wants public transport to make a comeback.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#161066: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:36:15 PM

@animefan1:

Yeah, if the President of the United Goddamn States started calling the Holocaust a fraud there would be severe repercussions both within the country and without, as there should be. Hopefully.

But no, the Republican Party has historically been very closely tied to Israel. Trump is the alt-right's President, but I don't think he goes as far as the neo-Nazis on 8chan. He's just willing to dogwhistle to them, and since his position on minorities is a first step toward normalizing their bile into mainstream politics, they supported him.

That said, as people have pointed out, Trump's surrogates have already held up the Japanese internment camps as a model of something they would like to do, so.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:37:21 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161067: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:43:38 PM

Also - Why Every American Should Care About Michigan's Cancelled Recount.

As as the Michigan recount is being stalled in courts, it has become clear that 75,000 votes in the counties with highly Democratic populations came back with no vote for President- but with votes for candidates lower down the ballot. This is what is referred to as an "undervote" and is largely attributed to malfunctioning ballot reader machines. In a state that Trump won by 11,000 votes, this large number of undervotes could easily change the outcome of who won here.

Incredibly, Michigan laws prohibit a recount if there are discrepancies in reconciling the numbers of votes against the poll books. Which is insane, of course. In a Catch 22 move, these wonky recount laws disallow a recount for the very reasons that a recount would be justified: "a precinct is ineligible to be recounted if the 'number of ballots to be recounted and the number of ballots issued on election day as shown on the poll list or the computer printout do not match and the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers.'" If someone wanted to skew an election, all they would have to do is add or remove a few ballots so the poll books don't match the number of votes, and there can be no recount.

Most of the mismatched poll books are in Wayne County, a heavily Democratic area with a population of over 1.7 million people. According to Detroit's election director, eighty-seven of Wayne County's decade-old voting machines broke on election day. From The Guardian: "Preliminary investigation by election officials in Wayne County found that 610 of the area's 1,680 precincts could not reconcile the number of votes cast according to the machines with the number of ballots issued according to the electoral rolls. Detroit contains 662 of Wayne's precincts; in 392 of those, the number of votes didn't match up."

After the 2000 recount debacle, Florida made laws that have made it almost impossible to get a recount request. Michigan's laws are going the same way. Under pressure from Trump's extensive and expensive legal team, a federal judge stopped the Michigan recount yesterday. This means that in our country, the candidate with the most money and influence is able to stop our votes from being properly counted. Which means that we no longer have the ability to elect our leaders, and our elections will become a farce. Which is what happened in Russia a few years ago and brought Putin to power. This is how dictatorships are formed.

This is not an issue of which side lost or which side won. This isn't a matter of exit polls being wrong or hacked voting machines. This is an issue of grave national importance. This affects every single person in our vast country and the future of our democracy and is something that every single one of us needs to be aware of and speak out against.

Michigan, and other key swing states, may very well have gone for Hillary. Thanks to bureaucratic stonewalling and corruption in the electoral system, we'll never know. And now we're stuck with a man who brags about sexual assault, doesn't understand why he can't just nuke his opponents, wants to register and/or deport millions of Americans, and sics his flunkies on anybody who so much as looks at him funny.

Seriously, election integrity is one of the things that worries me the most going forward. It's already fucked. Four years minimum under the GOP (especially Sessions) are not going to un-fuck it.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161068: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:43:48 PM

[up]Did his cabinet honestly say that? Why would they ever say its a "model"? A model of what?

What? What is this?
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161069: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:44:51 PM

[up[up]]It came as no surprised that the recount was going to be halt.

What? What is this?
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#161070: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:46:23 PM

the future leader of the free world

Yeah, no. I think that particular title has been lost somewhere in the mess. I think Germany is holding it now.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:46:48 PM by Kayeka

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#161071: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:46:24 PM

[up][up]...And? If you'll read my post, you'll see that wasn't exactly my point.

[up] True. I think we should probably ditch that unearned moniker for at least four years.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:47:34 PM by RBluefish

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#161072: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:48:55 PM

[up][up]We're willing to take it if you're not using it. tongue

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#161073: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:51:43 PM

They were talking about it in regards to the idea of putting Muslims in similar internment camps.

Oh really when?
animefan1 Since: Dec, 2013
#161074: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:52:14 PM

[up][up] i know its not your point, i was just pointing out how it didn't surprise me that the recount ended up being halted.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:53:54 PM by animefan1

What? What is this?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161075: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:53:08 PM

It was a spokesperson for Trump, I don't think he's on the Cabinet but the point still stands.

And you know what? While googling for that tidbit, I discovered that Trump himself was asked about the camps and gave a very noncommital answer as to whether he would have supported them or not.

Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump told TIME that he does not know whether he would have supported or opposed the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II.

“I would have had to be there at the time to tell you, to give you a proper answer,” he said during a recent interview in his office in New York City. “I certainly hate the concept of it. But I would have had to be there at the time to give you a proper answer.”

Trump added that he believes wartime sometimes requires difficult choices. “It’s a tough thing. It’s tough,” he said. “But you know war is tough. And winning is tough. We don’t win anymore. We don’t win wars anymore. We don’t win wars anymore. We’re not a strong country anymore. We’re just so off.”

Now, to be fair, it's one thing to acknowledge that, in a different era, it might have been entirely possible for you to hold horrible views. If you were a white man born in the South during the Confederacy, you would have probably wanted to own slaves, if you didn't already.

That sort of self-critical and thoughtful evaluation does not really seem to be at the root of Trump's answer, though.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:53:56 PM by Draghinazzo


Total posts: 417,856
Top